eBay

prestigecarpartsuk · ‎13-08-2024

Ok, seems i only come on here to moan as something that ebay has done, but this needs to be seen by everyone as a warning as what Ebay is assisting.

We all know that ebay has been in the past an easy tool for people to manipulate to there own advantage. One big thing now is returns.

I Sold a motorised Tailgate strut for a Discovery 5 in July, the buyer started a return on 6th August stating that it was no longer required or accidental order. Fine, mistakes happen, i understand. (you know where iam going with this) parcel returned to me Friday, got around to opening it yesterday only to discover that the item that has been returned is the old item. Not the brand new one that i sold rest visible on a retaining clip and signs of age across the item and no UV pen marks. Clearly the buyer knows that they sent the old one, as the new one has been placed on the car and which now has a working tailgate.

Knowing that i would be expect ebay to request information with regards to reporting this to the police (action fraud) i have reported the business prior to going through the ebay process. Attempting to report this through ebays "report buyer" process on the order page, let me upload images and advise ebay of the issue. But I thought it would be easier to contact ebay and speak to someone.

I advised the CS representative what had happened and they proceed to advise me that i have to refund them up to the maximum of 50% of the sale. Not happy i spoke with a line manager who repeated this and was very adamant that the same was true and that i should build in to my business systems that account for these sorts or issues. Buy now i am turning into the red hulk and asking why this is happening when the buyer is clearly in the wrong here, but in a more colourful way. Hanging up and contacting through the ebay systems rather than speaking to someone has returned the same response, basically they cannot verify the item that was actually sent to the buyer was new ( I am working on the reply with images of the hundreds of new ones I have in stock and if they want me to preload these images if this instance happens again. Surely one image of multiple number I have in stock is sufficient.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233194252651

You tell me what you think, given that ebay has a lot of information at hand, the number of items i have listed 11,953(£6,919,021.52, Qty: 42,557) across 16 ebay sites globally. I also pay for the maximum ebay account to get the unlimited listings and my ebay status is Top Rated with a few issues on returns. Over the last 12 months there have been £124,758.00 of sales from 1,114 items, of that ebay have taken £26,869.28 in fees. Do that not trust me? I have a lot invested in them?

Yet when i report someone of fraudulently returning there old item instead of the item that was sent, they do not believe me. Am i supposed to image every single item that is sent. Am i suppose to increase my prices by 50% to account for these people at the expense of the genuine buyers out there.

This cannot be right. I have a contact with Trading Standards and currently waiting on his advice. Ebay are robbing me and do not care that a top rated seller with 99.5% feedback is a victim or a crime.

It may only be £171 but its the principle of the issue am i being treated like a bad seller? is this a policy change from ebay. If so, they are going to loose a lot of customers.

Would be nice to see if anyone else gets treated this way. I will be thinking of taking this to an ombudsman 100%.

4_bathrooms · ‎13-08-2024

@prestigecarpartsuk wrote:

Knowing that i would be expect ebay to request information with regards to reporting this to the police (action fraud) i have reported the business prior to going through the ebay process. Attempting to report this through ebays "report buyer" process on the order page, let me upload images and advise ebay of the issue.

You needed to click the "Report a problem" link in the return request and provide an Action Fraud reference number with the report. That is the only way a seller is protected when a buyer returns a different item or an empty package in the course of a return. If the return request is still open - i.e. you haven't refunded anything - file a report with Action Fraud first then click the "Report a problem" link in the return request providing the AF reference number and a copy of their report.

@prestigecarpartsuk wrote:
But I thought it would be easier to contact ebay and speak to someone.

Unless you're a concierge-blessed mega-seller this is rarely a good idea.

@prestigecarpartsuk wrote:

This cannot be right. I have a contact with Trading Standards and currently waiting on his advice.

I doubt they can really help you much; Trading Standards mostly deal with issues consumers have with traders rather than the other way around.

Give me ambiguity or give me something else.

divine0606 · ‎13-08-2024

I feel your pain @prestigecarpartsuk we pay ebay such high fees with absolutely no help when issues like this arise especially on high value you items the buyer has no repuctions what so ever and even if you go the report the buyer option as suggested by @4_bathrooms not much happens you may get ebay to take the loss and refund you the total amount but they will only do this once any others you report will just get a red flag on there account and if they get so many i think there account gets suspended only to have them open a new account and start scamming again trust me we've had repeat scammers like this opening accounts just trying the same scam again, we now use a spread sheet specially designed with a search function for addresses as these scammers usually only have one address so even if they open another account we check addresses however this doesnt stop them from scamming its only used once we've been scammed just to confirm if its a repeat scammer so we can repot this to ebay and also get this account suspended.

Never the less they say its the cost of doing business online but it really does hurt especially when sales are scarce at the moment.

I also strongly agree the distant selling regulations need to be changed online scams are just rife at the moment its actually becoming a joke but ebay as usual will do zilch.

aj_swift · ‎13-08-2024

The 'cost of business' reply they give is really annoying. Always with the comparison to shoplifting from stores. I always want to point out that if I caught someone shoplifting I wouldn't let them leave with the item and say to myself 'cost of doing business'.

prestigecarpartsuk · ‎15-08-2024

So, an update.

Having "Stewed" for long enough i thought i would appeal the case. The online explanation on how to do so is extremely confusing asking you to go to the seller dashboad and the resolved cases to appeal the case, nothing of the sort there. But also noted that this case was also closed without seller resolution. So that would also be held against me and my seller rating. Ever more frustrating. Eventually i went through the online help & contact that only gave me the option for a phone call to appeal the decision, nothing else. Not holding my breath for a positive resolution, but one phone call later, i have been refunded the money back in full.

For reference to anyone reading this, if you ask the ebay person on the phone to mark this as a complaint it has to get investigated where they listen to the call. Not sure if that will help, but the more voices that are heard the more hopefully people will listen.

The caller sympathised with the sitation and agreed with me 100% that this is wrong and after giving him the Action Fraud ref number he managed to close the case in my favour. Interestingly i asked if the buyer would have actually been refunded his money, and yes he had. And i had also been refunded my money. Strange how ebay would not hold funds or recoop that from the buyer. Seems to be to much hassel for them, but they can write it off rather than me.

But ! ebay need to learn from this, not everyone is out to scam buyers. I send the parts i advertise, not bricks or bottles of water. 99.5% (which i might add is another area for discussion with the way Sellers cant leave bad feedback but Buyers can) feedback and Top Rater seller means nothing to some people at ebay.

4_bathrooms · ‎15-08-2024

@prestigecarpartsuk wrote:

The caller sympathised with the sitation and agreed with me 100% that this is wrong and after giving him the Action Fraud ref number he managed to close the case in my favour. Interestingly i asked if the buyer would have actually been refunded his money, and yes he had. And i had also been refunded my money.

The Action Fraud reference number was the key. eBay's "managed payments" are regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority; you can see their entry in the FCA's register here. As part of that regulation eBay is obliged to take reasonable steps to protect it's customers against fraud. The provision of an AF reference number serves as the seller's "proof" they have been defrauded. Note however that eBay has more obligations towards consumers (private buyers/sellers) than it does towards businesses.

Whenever a buyer returns a different item, returns an empty box or manipulates a return label resulting in a "ghost" return delivery the seller needs to use the specific "Report a problem" link in the return case (i.e. not the report link in the order details, feedback page nor the usual "Report a buyer" page). Doing so halts the automated returns process and ensures a person (not a bot) looks at the case. The provision of an AF reference number in this report is seemingly the easiest route for a seller to protect themself against financial loss. It sounds like you effectively went through this process via eBay's telephone support.

Anyway, congratulations on persisting and recovering the funds from eBay. Out of curiosity are you still showing a "case closed without seller resolution" recorded against your seller level?

@prestigecarpartsuk wrote:
Interestingly i asked if the buyer would have actually been refunded his money, and yes he had. And i had also been refunded my money. Strange how ebay would not hold funds or recoop that from the buyer. Seems to be to much hassel for them, but they can write it off rather than me.

The buyer is unlikely to not suffer any consequences. They might have their ability to open Money Back Guarantee cases removed or might end up being deemed "a risk to the eBay community" and find themself NARUd. It will probably depend upon whether they have been reported previously and/or are reported again in the future.

@prestigecarpartsuk wrote:
feedback and Top Rater seller means nothing to some people at ebay.

Top-rated seller status is just a badge based on a calculation; nothing more. As mentioned previously unless you're a concierge-blessed mega-seller it doesn't matter how long you have been an eBay member, how much feedback you have received nor what your seller level is - most non-mega sellers receive the same abysmal level of support from eBay's customer service representatives.

Give me ambiguity or give me something else.

vintagechinashop · ‎16-08-2024

This morning I have just had a return delivered and because it wasn't a wrapped properly all the items were smashed. I really haven't come across this before so I wasn't sure how to go about refusing to refund. So I managed to get onto online chat and I actually encountered a sensible CS representative who didn't question anything I said and within 5 minutes had closed the case in my favour and refunded the customer themselves without any out of pocket to me. Very impressed

jbrusby · ‎21-08-2024

I've just been treated to this experience for the first time as a seller, and am quite shocked and appalled at the response from Ebay who essentially have a system which knowingly enables and encourages fraud by buyers using the return system.

My case was - buyer purchases an individual item which I send out and they receive exactly what they ordered. Buyer opens a return request, without contacting me, complaining that they ordered a full set of said items, which they did not, as that was a different option in the multi-listing they ordered from (and £100 more). Buyer attaches a photo of what they received, which shows exactly what I sent and exactly matches the order details. I accepted the return not expecting any issues...

The return arrived on Monday and it was a totally different item to what they ordered and received. So different there's no way it was a 'mix up'. At this point I pondered the best course of action, and decided to opt for 'Report a Problem' in the open Return case. I explained the situation and attached photos of the item they received, the item I'd received back, and all the order details, hoping Ebay would find sense and see it was bl**dy obvious they hadn't returned what they'd got and that I couldn't refund them. More fool me.

24 hours later, I had an email from an Ebay customer rep who was in full agreement that the buyer had returned the wrong item, and that I would be covered under Seller Protection. They advised I should report the buyer and block them. Then they said:

>> "You can now proceed and appeal the case immediately so we can take proper action and have your seller protection 100% utilized. I can assure you that your funds are secured and we will release it."

I wasn't sure what they meant by 'appeal' as the case hadn't been resolved and no refund had been issued yet. But the email appeared to give full assurance I would be protected and not lose my funds. 15 minutes later however, I got an email from a different CS rep saying:

>> "We reviewed this case and decided to issue the buyer a full refund. Although we understand that you received your item back in a different condition than it was sent to you, we unfortunately couldn't determine that this was caused by the buyer or that this was something in the buyer's control"

At which point the case was closed in the buyer's favour, and a defect put on my account for 'unresolved case of INAD'. I deduced that the first CS rep seemed to be expecting this to happen, and that I would therefore have to appeal it *after the event*, but that I would win an appeal on Seller Protection grounds. So I went through the 'contact CS' bot and reached an Appeal button which forced them to call me. Explained the whole saga, and the chap agreed I should be reallocated the funds, but said he couldn't do it straight away as the other decision was still 'live' and he'd do it later yesterday. As of now, the day after, nothing has happened. It's starting to feel not worth the time and effort to chase up just for £28, but that's clearly what Ebay want, and I feel short changed and furious that their system of dealing with such a clear case of fraud, with all the evidence in front of them, is so haphazard and anti-seller.

I can see from this thread that seemingly the ONLY means of ensuring Seller Protection is upheld is if you report to Action Fraud first and then pass that to Ebay, though I doubt AF would bother with a fairly small amount either.

electro_drum_shop · ‎24-08-2024

This happens a lot with ebay customer services. Promises are made that they'll action a fix or resolution just to get you off the phone.

You wait and nothing changes or they find in the scammers favour.

Don't give up though, you can get things done, BUT only if you get a decent agent. It feels like the useful agents are very much the minority.

Be stubborn and keep calling.

The ebay CS methodology needs to evolve, keep harranging them and don't be steamrollered by the automatic processes.

imlas-17 · ‎29-11-2024

That’s what EBay did to me . They have some incompetent customer services agents who can hardly speak English or understand the Uk consumer rights . Moreover , they aren’t well trained to deal with civilised customers . They tend to reply back to you like robots . Also , don’t think EBay practise fair policy as you will find lots of business sellers running the business in the Uk living in foreign countries who sell fake products and EBay allow them . But they are very quick to block UK sellers accounts where we have very strict regulations. They literally let a buyer take my product and also made me refund. The best advice would be to report eBay to Financial Omubadman of they ever try to rob you off your money. EBay should know that they are operating in a country like UK where both sellers and buyer rights are protected . If higher number of people report them to financial Ombudsmam , I am sure this will discourage EBay to follow wrong policies . They can’t just permanently restrict you from selling without justifying it. Finally , they must hire customer services team from the UK who knows British laws and values. Stop hiring cheap labour from other countries as it’s a labour exploitation.