Click & Drop IOSS Mark Missing from Labels

[eyewear247]

I have just had a German customer complaining that he had to pay tax, duties and a handling charge to get his order delivered. 

I have checked and eBay have charged him the VAT at the checkout via IOSS. Upon checking the RM shipping label the IOSS marking is not on the label were as it has always previously been present. 

Printed out a couple of EU labels today and again it is not there.

Have any of you good folks noticed anything like this before.

[ett1954]

As @4_bathrooms  indicated above that this problem was raised on Amazon's boards 7 days ago ( now 8); it appears to be a Royal Mail issue.  Still not an admission or even a notification on the Click & Drop website.

My customer has agreed to pay any costs if required and send me a copy of the invoice which I will then refund directly.  I will then be making a claim against Royal Mail.  I would suggest you do the same.

[bzmotman]

I've now had 4 EU buyers had to pay Tax & fee. I am also starting to wonder whether the fault is just with the EU items or whether it might also include Australia which is my other main overseas market. A bit early to get any feedback from there.

Whilst I agree that a claim against RM seems most likely I would like to hear from Ebay where they think the fault lies. If RM admit to the problem it should make getting money out of them a bit easier.

[bricklanebargains]

We print our international labels through Royal Mail Click & Drop and I noticed the absence of IOSS logo last week. I hope it doesn`t cause even more problems with deliveries to EU. I think this is more of a Royal Mail problem rather than an Ebay problem. 

Also, a German buyer recently complained that he had to pay tax on a pair of jeans he purchased from us. I explained to him that he shouldn`t have to since Ebay collects VAT upfront. Luckily, he wasn`t fussy about it, didn`t ask for a refund, etc.  

[ett1954]

The tracking on the order I sent without the IOSS symbol is currently showing: "Your item is currently with Customs in the destination country".  I should find out if there is an issue in the next day or two.

[doingthistopaythebills]

I'm a business seller and a business user of royal mail Click and Drop. I have a customer in Belgium that just received a bill for 29 euro handling fee from customs on a £20 item. They are not happy as you can imagine. I've just checked my postal labels and from around 24th July the European labels are missing the IOSS device. This is around the time that RM updated Click and Drop system.

Anyone any idea how to proceed and advise my customer.?

[vinylscot]

Could this possibly have something to do with The Germany Packaging Act (VerpackG), which came into effect some time ago? Although it was introduced in 2022, I have been able to send items to Germany as normal until recently, when the IOSS number no longer appeared on my labels. No other countries have been affected. (IOSS numbers are only for packages to EU members, so packages to countries outside the EU don't require them, and never have done.)

According to VerpackG, you should not be able to send items to Germany, unless you sign up to the LUCID packaging register. Perhaps they are only now starting to enforce it actively?

[ett1954]

Post 25 states the customer is Belgian!

The VAT has been collected by eBay on sales but no IOSS symbol is generated which suggests that the issue is with the data link between Royal Mail and eBay.  As Amazon sellers have also been affected this would suggest the issue is at Royal Mail.

[ett1954]

Morally you should refund the customer in full for the added costs they paid.

eBay should be refunding the VAT collected to you along with any fees they incurred; after all the VAT has been paid by the customer.  You can't charge VAT twice on the product.

Royal Mail should then be refunding you the administrative fees the customer was charged due to the failure in their system which has resulted in those costs.

Unfortunately morality is not often found these days in the corporate dictionary.

[bzmotman]

Absolutely nothing to do with the Packaging Act. I am registered and my LUCID number appears on my listings. 

This is solely to do with Ebay or Royal Mail or both fouling up on the transfer of customs data. Not even sure whether the lack of the IOSS symbol is relevent as I don't imagine the Germans physically check each item. I suspect is just a symptom of the data transfer failure. The whole idea is that the data is sent electronically.

[bzmotman]

I have taken the approach of contacting all my customers who had an incorrect RM label to prewarn them of the possible problem. I have asked them to let me know if they have a tax demand & to send me a copy of their receipt if they pay it. Explained its either an Ebay or Royal Mail issue & reassured them that they are not liable as Ebay have already collected the tax.

Everyone has been understanding & I have already posted a copy of a receipt but as yet kat@ebay has not come back with an update.

It maybe that the Wednesday Community Chat may be the right forum to raise the profile of this issue.

[bzmotman]

I completely agree that the customers should be refunded but suspect that unless Ebay can get RM to admit that it is their failure then as usual the seller will be picking up the bill.

There is a process already in place for buyers to get a tax refund if they are charged twice but this relies on them having the correct paperwork, submitting it in the correct manner to Ebay & Ebay actually actioning it - will that happen?

There is also the question of how sellers can refund the charges & tax to the buyer. We can't do it via Managed Payments, we are not allowed to have buyers Paypal address etc etc. Not as though we could send a good old fashioned cheque! Suppose I could always send cash in the post!!

This is something that Ebay/Royal Mail need to sort out centrally.

[ett1954]

Unfortunately the total lack of acceptance that there is even a problem by both Royal Mail primarily and secondly by eBay their partner in this transactional procedure, in which they charge the seller a fee, does not bode well.   The silence from each of them is deafening.

As usual these corporations say nothing, stick their heads up their a***s, pretend everything smells of roses, and leave it for the sellers to clear up their mess.

[4_bathrooms]

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@ett1954 wrote:

Unfortunately the total lack of acceptance that there is even a problem by both Royal Mail primarily and secondly by eBay their partner in this transactional procedure, in which they charge the seller a fee, does not bode well.   The silence from each of them is deafening.

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This was posted by a user on the Amazon thread (5 days ago):

"Spoke to RM yesterday as we only released [sic] yesterday that C&D had not been automatically placing the IOSS numbers.

In typical RM style, while they said they were aware that a 'small number of users' have been affected, they did not deem it sufficient to mention this on their site.

They are 'looking at it' and if anyone wants to know whether they have got it working, you have to contact them."

The last post from 3 days ago states:

"Yes I have the same problem, have emailed 3 times, then rang - was told its an IT issue at RM, they gave me a case number 2 days ago and passed to their IT department but as you can guess nothing has happened - still having to manually copy and paste the IOSS number - pain in the backside!

RM - hopeless"

I haven't linked directly to the thread as I suspect doing so isn't is allowed on these boards and an Amazon selling account is likely required in order to view it anyway. It's easy enough to find and read if you do have an Amazon selling account, though.

What is interesting is there doesn't seem to be many users affected on either Amazon or eBay; if this was a universal C&D problem I would have expected far more users to be posting. However, for anyone who is affected it is obviously a serious problem because their buyers are now paying VAT twice along with their domestic carrier's handling charge for clearing customs - at least, until the seller realises they have to manually enter eBay's IOSS number into each C&D transaction prior to printing the labels.

As the issue lies entirely within C&D the marketplaces are not going to see any sort of technical problem on their side. Unfortunately this seemingly means they are just going to take the "it's not us" approach despite their buyers being affected. Neither has posted an announcement to even warn C&D users there may be an issue and how to resolve it which is really the least they could do.

Anyway...there is a way for affected buyers to reclaim overpaid VAT from eBay by using the following URL (this one is for Germany):

https://ocswf.ebay.de/mudcwf?deptName=CollectRemitRefund

The top-level domain needs to be changed from ".de" (highlighted in red) to the TLD of the buyer's regional eBay site. So, if the buyer is from Italy the ".de" needs to be changed to ".it". Note however that link is to claim a refund for overpaid VAT; I'm not sure if eBay will also refund the handling charge levied by the buyer's domestic carrier. 

[ett1954]

" I'm not sure if eBay will also refund the handling charge levied by the buyer's domestic carrier. " - nor probably the fees they levied on the seller for the VAT collected.

" Neither has posted an announcement to even warn C&D users there may be an issue and how to resolve it which is really the least they could do." - And that is the crux of the problem.  If these corporations were honest and open with communication when there is an issue many of these problems can be minimised or avoided by the seller.  Instead it's 'keep quiet and don't worry the investors'.

[4_bathrooms]

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@ett1954 wrote:

" I'm not sure if eBay will also refund the handling charge levied by the buyer's domestic carrier. " - nor probably the fees they levied on the seller for the VAT collected.

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To be honest, I don't see why eBay would refund the fees. The buyer is claiming a refund for the VAT that was charged by their domestic carrier (that is who will have invoiced them). eBay are funding that refund out of their own pocket but will then use the evidence supplied by the buyer to reclaim the overpaid VAT they refunded. eBay still charged and remitted the buyer's domestic VAT at the point of sale so it really doesn't end up being any different to a "normal" EU sale.

Well, except eBay need to clarify whether they also refund the domestic carrier's handling charge or not (I suspect not but I could be wrong).

[ett1954]

"eBay still charged and remitted the buyer's domestic VAT at the point of sale so it really doesn't end up being any different to a "normal" EU sale." - But a non-VAT registered seller, such as myself is charged a Final Value Fee, Regulatory Fee, and International Selling Fee on the total cost collected from the buyer (this total  includes the VAT collected from the buyer); its the fees collected on that total inclusive of VAT I was referring to, those which in turn attract VAT which a non VAT registered business seller is unable to recover.  Sorry I should have explained better.

[4_bathrooms]

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@ett1954 wrote:

But a non-VAT registered seller, such as myself is charged a Final Value Fee, Regulatory Fee, and International Selling Fee on the total cost collected from the buyer (this total  includes the VAT collected from the buyer)

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Isn't that always the case? The FVF, RoF and International Fee are always charged on the "total amount of the sale (which includes the item price, postage, and any applicable taxes)". eBay's fees for business sellers are shown exclusive of VAT so a non-VAT registered seller pays the VAT on top of that total whilst a VAT-registered seller chalks it down as input VAT.

Unless I'm missing something - and I apologise if I am - I can't see how this issue has caused you to pay any more in eBay fees per transaction than you would have done had the problem not existed. eBay wasn't aware the buyer would be charged VAT a second time (plus a handling fee) so would not have have charged you any extra selling fees on that basis.

Don't get me wrong I think it's incredibly cheeky that eBay charges fees on purchase taxes that eBay are obliged to charge and remit (such as VAT and GST). However, they have always maximised their fees by using the highest sale amount possible. For example; if a VAT-registered seller sells an item to a buyer in the US the domestic VAT element is not deducted from the selling price. No VAT element is shown on the sales record so eBay effectively increased the VAT-registered seller's net selling price by 20% to maximise their fee take. This is clearly intentional as eBay removes the domestic VAT element when the buyer resides in a territory where eBay is responsible for charging and remitting purchase tax such as Australia or the EU.        

[ett1954]

"I can't see how this issue has caused you to pay any more in eBay fees per transaction than you would have done had the problem not existed." - In the case of Final Value Fees and International Transaction Fees that would be the case however in the case of Regulatory Fees that would not be so as the service was not carried out.

I am not suggesting that eBay is the party at fault here; but their partner in this transaction, Royal Mail, would appear to have failed in their obligation to provide the correct data transfer to ensure a smooth transaction.  This has resulted in the buyer having to pay a fee to receive their goods which were purchased from the platform in good faith.  The buyer's alternative is to refuse to accept the delivery upon which it would be returned to the seller.  Either way, and with the lack of any communication from either eBay or Royal Mail, this suggests the seller is going to be not only picking up the costs of this failure, but paying extra for the privilege.

At the end of the day the the major problem here is the total lack of effective communication of either, or both parties, as to the nature of a potential issue which should have, in most cases, prevented this being a problem for both the buyer and the seller.  In my case this problem, and it is why I am so annoyed, with timely communication could have been avoided.

[ett1954]

As feared, I have just received word from my German buyer who was just landed with an equivalent £19.50 VAT charge plus an addition equivalent £6.50 charge for administration fees on delivery of his parcel.

What is even more galling he was charged the full VAT rate of 19% when the magazines were originally charged at the correct reduced rate of 7% for printed matter in Germany.

dave@ebay ; kat@ebay ; marco@ebay  Could someone please advise urgently what eBay and/or Royal Mail are doing to rectify this farcical situation.

[bzmotman]

There may be more to this than is currently apparent. I have just had 2 letters to Spain with the IOSS symbol both done through Click & Drop returned because the buyers refused to pay the tax plus fee. The interesting thing is both are dated 10th June. 

From what I can make out the buyers refused to pay, Spanish Post Office sat on them & then finally returned them. Also had another Spanish buyer tell me they have refused their item. All are regular longstandng customers.

Any one else have any issues with Spain?