Chinese Sellers with UK addresses?

[richardsuperstar]

how come there is at present so many Chinese sellers on here who are allowed to put their despatch location as here in the UK?

I've found loads of items which are undercutting most UK sellers and they all show their location as in the UK but then have their registered company address details as in Hong Kong.

its pretty clear that these sellers dont have offices in the uk and are just putting this to stop them being filtered out when someone clicks on show uk only.

surely there should be some check done by ebay to ensure that if a company claims to be in a country the address needs to be verified..

[manicphonic4]

So you're saying eBay makes refunds to fraudulent claims? Aren't you therefore stating that eBay is breaching it's own policies and knowingly supporting fraudulent claims? They have access to ALL information relating to claims so you must be right. Interesting concept. Fraud is a very heavy word and I'm sure if that were the case then none of this would happen as it does.

[4_bathrooms]

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@manicphonic4 wrote:

So you're saying eBay makes refunds to fraudulent claims? 

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Are you saying they don't? Here are some examples of eBay issuing refunds against fraudulent claims.

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@manicphonic4 wrote:

 Fraud is a very heavy word and I'm sure if that were the case then none of this would happen as it does.

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You have already admitted you intentionally use the process you do to defraud sellers and obtain items for free; this is very different to receiving a refund by mistakenly using the wrong process.   

[manicphonic4]

I think you'll find that is NOT what I said I'd already done. I said it is something I may do. Please read more carefully. I said I had received a refund following actions relating to an item and my intentions were correct, not fraudulent. You need to be very accurate with your accusations.

[myronk7]

How can it be fraud if a buyer wants to return an atem to a seller who has decieved the buyer? It's a reasonable request and it's then up to the seller to decide how they deal with it. You need to make yourself aware of eBay's policies, in particular the 'Sellers responsibilities' and also 'Buyer Protection' before you start throwing about accusations of fraud.

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@4_bathrooms wrote:

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@myronk7 wrote:

WHAT TO DO TO GET YOUR OWN BACK AND HOPEFULLY STOP THIS DISHONEST TRADING

If you order something that purports to come from the UK and it comes via China post, take a picture of the packaging and open a case with eBay quoting "Not as Described". Considering that the seller said it was coming from the UK in 4 days and it came from China in 2 weeks is reasonable cause for a NAD claim.

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I think you're fully aware that "not as described" relates to the item itself and not the claimed item location nor carriage service. If the item is overdue and the seller is not responding the correct course of action is to open an item not received case. Ultimately, the seller's only options will be to upload tracking or issue a full refund. A seller that has violated eBay's Item Location Policy is very unlikely to upload tracking as it will either show the item's location was misrepresented or that the item was despatched late (if they upload tracking for the UK leg of the journey).

If you have proof the item's location was misrepresented you need to report the seller and select "The seller has violated one of eBay's policies". In the next screen you need to explain they violated the aforementioned Item Location Policy and state the proof that you have. I have done this with two sellers that violated the policy and both ended up NARU.

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@myronk7 wrote:

It's now got to the stage where I am hoping that anything I order that is supposed to come from the UK actually comes from China so that I can get it for FREE.

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So, your solution for dealing with dishonest sellers abusing eBay's policies is to abuse eBay's policies yourself and commit fraud? If just a few sellers you defraud follow eBay's process for reporting a buyer you could very well find eBay removing your buyer protections and/or your ability to buy at all. I have a feeling you are not interested in following the correct eBay procedure for reporting these sellers as it would prevent you being able to get stuff for free. 

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@4_bathrooms wrote:

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@myronk7 wrote:

WHAT TO DO TO GET YOUR OWN BACK AND HOPEFULLY STOP THIS DISHONEST TRADING

If you order something that purports to come from the UK and it comes via China post, take a picture of the packaging and open a case with eBay quoting "Not as Described". Considering that the seller said it was coming from the UK in 4 days and it came from China in 2 weeks is reasonable cause for a NAD claim.

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I think you're fully aware that "not as described" relates to the item itself and not the claimed item location nor carriage service. If the item is overdue and the seller is not responding the correct course of action is to open an item not received case. Ultimately, the seller's only options will be to upload tracking or issue a full refund. A seller that has violated eBay's Item Location Policy is very unlikely to upload tracking as it will either show the item's location was misrepresented or that the item was despatched late (if they upload tracking for the UK leg of the journey).

If you have proof the item's location was misrepresented you need to report the seller and select "The seller has violated one of eBay's policies". In the next screen you need to explain they violated the aforementioned Item Location Policy and state the proof that you have. I have done this with two sellers that violated the policy and both ended up NARU.

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@myronk7 wrote:

It's now got to the stage where I am hoping that anything I order that is supposed to come from the UK actually comes from China so that I can get it for FREE.

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So, your solution for dealing with dishonest sellers abusing eBay's policies is to abuse eBay's policies yourself and commit fraud? If just a few sellers you defraud follow eBay's process for reporting a buyer you could very well find eBay removing your buyer protections and/or your ability to buy at all. I have a feeling you are not interested in following the correct eBay procedure for reporting these sellers as it would prevent you being able to get stuff for free. 

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@4_bathrooms wrote:

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@myronk7 wrote:

WHAT TO DO TO GET YOUR OWN BACK AND HOPEFULLY STOP THIS DISHONEST TRADING

If you order something that purports to come from the UK and it comes via China post, take a picture of the packaging and open a case with eBay quoting "Not as Described". Considering that the seller said it was coming from the UK in 4 days and it came from China in 2 weeks is reasonable cause for a NAD claim.

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I think you're fully aware that "not as described" relates to the item itself and not the claimed item location nor carriage service. If the item is overdue and the seller is not responding the correct course of action is to open an item not received case. Ultimately, the seller's only options will be to upload tracking or issue a full refund. A seller that has violated eBay's Item Location Policy is very unlikely to upload tracking as it will either show the item's location was misrepresented or that the item was despatched late (if they upload tracking for the UK leg of the journey).

If you have proof the item's location was misrepresented you need to report the seller and select "The seller has violated one of eBay's policies". In the next screen you need to explain they violated the aforementioned Item Location Policy and state the proof that you have. I have done this with two sellers that violated the policy and both ended up NARU.

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@myronk7 wrote:

It's now got to the stage where I am hoping that anything I order that is supposed to come from the UK actually comes from China so that I can get it for FREE.

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So, your solution for dealing with dishonest sellers abusing eBay's policies is to abuse eBay's policies yourself and commit fraud? If just a few sellers you defraud follow eBay's process for reporting a buyer you could very well find eBay removing your buyer protections and/or your ability to buy at all. I have a feeling you are not interested in following the correct eBay procedure for reporting these sellers as it would prevent you being able to get stuff for free. 

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[myronk7]

How can requesting a return because the seller has decieved the buyer be fraud? I thing it's a reasonable request to return the item for a refund if the seller has lied to buyers and then it's up to the seller how they want to proceed. I suggest that that you make youself conversant with eBay's rules, especially 'Sellers Responsibility' and 'Buyer Protection' before you throw accusations of fraud about.

[manicphonic4]

I agree and more importantly so does eBay.

[myronk7]

It's not just having to wait longer for the item, nor is it that you could get it cheaper if you knowingly bought it from China that's the problem, but see how you feel when it is supposed to come from the UK, it comes from China and you have to toddle off to the delivery office and pay VAT, cusoms duty and an £8 handling charge.to Royal Mail before they hand over your package. The buyer is always resonsible for import duties. Try getting it back from the seller. You can try getting eBay involved but it's too much hassle, so you roll over and accept the loss.

[4_bathrooms]

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@manicphonic4 wrote:
I think you'll find that is NOT what I said I'd already done. I said it is something I may do. 

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I apologise; the second part of my reply was aimed at myronk7 (I didn't realise you were a different poster at the time).

[4_bathrooms]

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@myronk7 wrote:

It's not just having to wait longer for the item, nor is it that you could get it cheaper if you knowingly bought it from China that's the problem, but see how you feel when it is supposed to come from the UK, it comes from China and you have to toddle off to the delivery office and pay VAT, cusoms duty and an £8 handling charge.to Royal Mail before they hand over your package. The buyer is always resonsible for import duties. Try getting it back from the seller. You can try getting eBay involved but it's too much hassle, so you roll over and accept the loss.

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Then why don't you open an INR case and tell Royal Mail you don't want the item? RM will send the item back to the seller and you will get a full refund from eBay without having to pay RM anything.

[manicphonic4]

Have you ever tried dealing with The Royal Mail in cases like these? I have on one occasion and it was very slow and an absolute nightmare. Ebay and PayPal are here for that and whether you like it or not buyers have this protection and eBay refund these cases because they see it as fair for the buyer who should not be misinformed or misled in any way at any point and regardless of anything the buyer may have done or not done the buyer will deserve a full refund without question. That's why eBay pay out so anything you have to say should be said to them, not us on here. Besides, why should the couriers be held responsible for any of this as they have done exactly as they were contracted to? You're just looking to lay blame anywhere other than where it belongs, with the seller in the market or shop they sell in. END

[myronk7]

I agree with manicphonic4. It's not Royal Mails fault, so why should they have to deal witn a problem caused by a dishonest seller. Yesterday I looked at buying a  telescope on eBay. It tpok me an hour to wade through evry listing of sellers offering the model I wanted to try and find a genuine UK seller. I couldn't find one UK seller, and some sellers who were claiming that the item was in the UK were quoting 6 weeks for delivery. Today I decided to order it through Amazon using Amazon Prime and it will arrive tomorrow.

[manicphonic4]

I just bought a telescope last Thursday and it arrived today - may have clear skies tomorrow night. Good British eBay seller!

[manicphonic4]

This comes down to one problem regardless of geography and that's some sellers are dishonest and they do this to sell and compete against others unfairly by deliberately 'misinforming' unsuspecting buyers about the true location and delivery times of goods. If they were completely honest as they are expected to be we wouidn't be having this discsussion would we - we would choose who we buy from based on the true facts. And we would accept the costs, delays etc, because we knew this at the point of sale. They would lose sales to British sellers as buyers want things as soon as they can get them, which is an entitlement that is protected by eBay and consumer rights. 

[4_bathrooms]

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@manicphonic4 wrote:

Have you ever tried dealing with The Royal Mail in cases like these? I have on one occasion and it was very slow and an absolute nightmare. 

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All you need to do is ignore the "fee to pay" card and the item is sent back to the seller after 21 days (currently 30 days due to the current crisis). As soon as it is received you just need to open an INR case - you will get your refund and the seller will get their item back.

[4_bathrooms]

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@manicphonic4 wrote:

This comes down to one problem regardless of geography and that's some sellers are dishonest and they do this to sell and compete against others unfairly by deliberately 'misinforming' unsuspecting buyers about the true location and delivery times of goods. If they were completely honest as they are expected to be we wouidn't be having this discsussion would we - we would choose who we buy from based on the true facts. And we would accept the costs, delays etc, because we knew this at the point of sale. They would lose sales to British sellers as buyers want things as soon as they can get them, which is an entitlement that is protected by eBay and consumer rights. 

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Your statutory consumer rights do not apply when you purchase from a non-EU registered seller.

This is why I believe eBay should make buyers completely aware of the seller's registered location as well as (or instead of) the claimed item location. Putting this information in the seller's "business seller information" section just doesn't cut it; especially as it's almost impossible to find on a mobile device. It isn't just about delivery times or customs fees but consumer protection from dangerous goods as well. 

[manicphonic4]

So you agree that in these cases we're referring to that the sellers are not being clear, open and honest. As for consumer rights if we buy from a seller stating that the goods are in the UK and they're 'UK sellers' we are protected by UK consumer rights and that's what we're using - nothing dishonest from this side at all. Therefore I don't fully understand why you're arguing with us.

[4_bathrooms]

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@manicphonic4 wrote:

So you agree that in these cases we're referring to that the sellers are not being clear, open and honest. 

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That we do agree on.

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@manicphonic4 wrote:

As for consumer rights if we buy from a seller stating that the goods are in the UK and they're 'UK sellers' we are protected by UK consumer rights

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No, you're not. If the seller is registered outside the EU you have no consumer rights to fall back on regardless of the stated item location nor anything else the seller claims. Trading Standards are not going to pursue them nor can you pursue the seller yourself through Money Claims Online nor the European Small Claims Procedure. 

"Seller assumes all responsibility for this listing" is eBay's get-out clause that prevents you holding them liable.

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@manicphonic4 wrote:

Therefore I don't fully understand why you're arguing with us.

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In an earlier post you stated that you habitually report such sellers in the knowledge you will get the item for free. To me, this is just as dishonest as the seller misrepresenting the item location in the first place. I have posted my previous experience of reporting such sellers via eBay's procedure for doing so. The result was two sellers that ended up NARU and could no longer engage in such practices. What you decide to do with that information is entirely up to you.

[manicphonic4]

i think you need to retract that incorrect accusation and the previous false allegation you've wrongly accused me of earlier.

[myronk7]

If you request a return on the grounds that the seller falsly stated the item was coming from the UK, then it's up to the seller to decide if it's financially viable to pay for the item to be returned for a refund. If they decide they don't want the item back and just refund you, then that's thier decision, so how can a buyer be commiting  fraud by just insisting on their rights?

[ferretktf]

>>>All you need to do is ignore the "fee to pay" card and the item is sent back to the seller after 21 days (currently 30 days due to the current crisis). As soon as it is received you just need to open an INR case - you will get your refund and the seller will get their item back.<<<

You may lose the INR case as eBay take a dismal view of refused delivery or failure to collect from Royal mail.

You might have to open the case in PayPal