CAP PRIVATE SELLERS TO 100 ACTIVE LISTINGS - LIKE IF YOU AGREE - COMMENT IF YOU DONT

[moonspender]

So I lost out on some stock Sunday as was outbid ... a private seller listed them on ebay yesterday.

Ebay lose out on fees as a result

Reported but i dont expect action to be taken even though I could evidence where they were purchased - they didnt want this information ? Baffling

A real genuine private seller only needs 100 active listings ... this is the only thing that will get private sellers who are really business sellers to change to the business account and pay ebay the correct fees

[therenewalworkshopltd]

Really?  So if your selling that brand new top of the range computer, your advertising it on Ebay with your full name and address on the listing.

Along comes someone who sees that listing and that your only in the next street across from them.

The following night, said computer disappears.....

Ok, so that is a bit of a stretch, but putting your name on a label, is not quite the same as telling the whole world where you stuff is....

And it's not about whether or not they would mind, they would literally be forced to do so.

Which I'm quite sure would be breaking at least one data protection law.

[jow1995]

On a thread there was a private seller who had sold 70k  items, these were mainly stamps, so maybe selling off a collection maybe not.

[moonspender]

So in effect they have bought stuff to resell ... sounds like a business seller to me ... wonder what HMRC would say ?

[jow1995]

Probably "inherited" from their next door neighbours , brother-in-laws Uncle

[moldosgifts]

I do know stamp collectors can have vast collections my parents have one that has over 1 million stamps form all over the world in it.

But i also know you can buy big bags of stamps take out just one then sell the rest, selling a collection is not a business but selling spares from that bag is. According to HMRC rules.

[moonspender]

This is a couple of years old but interesting

https://vwtaxation.com/what-point-does-a-hobby-become-a-business/

If ebay followed the HMRC rules it would be alot easier.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

But i also know you can buy big bags of stamps take out just one then sell the rest, selling a collection is not a business but selling spares from that bag is. According to HMRC rules.

Well to be fair, that's not really HMRC rules.

The rules are in regard to intention.  ie. something was bought with the intention of selling it to make a profit.

That is not the same as buying a bag of stamps in order to collect one stamp and then sell the rest on.

It's very much borderline and probably fairly easy to get away with in regard to HMRC.

I suppose that the biggest indicator, would simply be the regularity of doing this kind of thing.

ie.  occasionally is fine, but day after day, is trading.

Take a look at:  https://www.gov.uk/working-for-yourself

[moldosgifts]

People often get confused about these 2 £1,000 limits turnover and income.

It a common theme with a HMRC this £1,000 pops up all over the place for different things.

Turnover TOTAL sales including postage,

Income is what s left over after deducting all expenses.

This why the Automatic reporting to HMRC is £1,700 and change because that is turnover, and they would predict you will earn near the £1,000 in income from, that. I wish

[moldosgifts]

Love your side hustle? Make it tax official this Valentine’s - GOV.UK

Try this link it, it's the new campaign on side hustles which is what we are talking about.

[moldosgifts]

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@therenewalworkshopltd wrote:

But i also know you can buy big bags of stamps take out just one then sell the rest, selling a collection is not a business but selling spares from that bag is. According to HMRC rules.

Well to be fair, that's not really HMRC rules.

The rules are in regard to intention.  ie. something was bought with the intention of selling it to make a profit.

That is not the same as buying a bag of stamps in order to collect one stamp and then sell the rest on.

It's very much borderline and probably fairly easy to get away with in regard to HMRC.

I suppose that the biggest indicator, would simply be the regularity of doing this kind of thing.

ie.  occasionally is fine, but day after day, is trading.

Take a look at:  https://www.gov.uk/working-for-yourself

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The things is they intended to sell those extra stamps rather than send them to landfill that makes it a business activity.

This is a new campaign from HMRC Love your side hustle? Make it tax official this Valentine’s - GOV.UK

[therenewalworkshopltd]

Sorry, but that is just a campaign, it is based entirely upon the same thing on the link I posted.

Just because they are doing a campaign about it, does NOT change the rules.

What I said still stands.

From the link you posted:

"This only applies to people who are trading or selling services. If someone is simply clearing out their unwanted items and putting them up for sale, they will not need to pay tax."

Which is exactly what I was talking about.  If the intent is buy/sell for a profit, then you are business.

If not, then you are not a business.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

And how do you know that they intended to do so?

Aside from which, I based my answer on what your wrote, not what you thought....

ie. "But i also know you can buy big bags of stamps take out just one then sell the rest, selling a collection is not a business but selling spares from that bag is. According to HMRC rules."

Selling spares from the bag is NOT a business according to HMRC rules.

I'm not going to write out the same things again.  But I suggest that you read what I wrote originally.

[moldosgifts]

Selling goods

You’re probably trading if you sell goods that you have:

• bought intending to sell for a profit
• made, including items you make for a hobby

You’ll need to add together this income with your income from other trading activities, such as providing services or creating online content. If your total income is more than the £1,000 trading allowance for the tax year (6 April to 5 April), you’ll need to tell us about it.

Taken from Check if you need to tell HMRC about your income from online platforms - GOV.UK

[therenewalworkshopltd]

NO, that is not correct!

The £1000 you are talking about, is how much you can turnover before you have to register as self employed!

I would suggest, that you go ask HMRC about this, as it's very clear and you are wrong!

It is NOT a trading allowance.

The key part of that is 

• bought intending to sell for a profit
• made, including items you make for a hobby

Buying something as part of a hobby and selling it, is NOT trading!

[moldosgifts]

So 

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@therenewalworkshopltd wrote:

NO, that is not correct!

The £1000 you are talking about, is how much you can turnover before you have to register as self employed!

I would suggest, that you go ask HMRC about this, as it's very clear and you are wrong!

It is NOT a trading allowance.

The key part of that is 

• bought intending to sell for a profit
• made, including items you make for a hobby

Buying something as part of a hobby and selling it, is NOT trading!

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If you turnover £1000 you need to tell HMRC if you make profit of £1000 you need to fill in a tax return two totally different points. One is basically letting them know you've turned over £1000 the other is I've made a profit on that turnover of £1000

A hobby turns into a business when you are buying goods taking 1 or 2 choice pieces and sell the rest.

[bookworm191472]

As a private seller I would be unhappy being limited to just 100 listings.  I have lived in my house since 1994, my parents have lived in their house since 1967.  We tend not to throw things away.  We have a lot of stuff and are starting to declutter and make a bit of cash by selling things on ebay.  My strategy is to end listings after a month and use "sell similar" which anecdotally creates a new listing and therefore should increase visibility.  However, I don't need 300 "new" listings a month as I don't have the time for that sort of ebaying alongside working and family so wouldn't mind it that was limited.

[moldosgifts]

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@therenewalworkshopltd wrote:

And how do you know that they intended to do so?

Aside from which, I based my answer on what your wrote, not what you thought....

ie. "But i also know you can buy big bags of stamps take out just one then sell the rest, selling a collection is not a business but selling spares from that bag is. According to HMRC rules."

Selling spares from the bag is NOT a business according to HMRC rules.

I'm not going to write out the same things again.  But I suggest that you read what I wrote originally.

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The one they keep become chattels as in added to their own collection the other s they sell become a trading activity.

I believe the time frame is 6 months to become a chattel, I can remember reading on the gov site what is trading and what is collecting, the example they gave was on trading cards but swap cards for stamps or post cards.

And they said if you buy some packs open them keep some cards sell the rest that is trading. 

I'm struggling to find it right now but i can honesty tell you that is what i read.

[theelench]

"A hobby turns into a business when you are buying goods, taking 1 or 2 choice pieces and sell the rest"

Not necessarily and certainly not always.

Several times over my time on ebay I've bought several pieces of a dressing table set.  A candlestick, a small trinket pot and ring holder here, two more candlesticks, a larger pot and another ring holder there.  I'm getting nearer to the full set but have a surplus candlestick and ring holder.  

I've sold the surplus items on a handful of occasions over a decade.  Most collecting hobbies involve that sort of trade-of.  That is not trading.

Doing it month after month, providing a never ending supply of 'surplus' items for re-selling is trading.  The Badges of Trade makes it clear that the frequency  of such trades is a consideration.  IMO an important one in how HMRC looks at it.

[moldosgifts]

So if I buy a mixed lot.... — MoneySavingExpert Forum

Interesting thread and talking about exactly what we are now only difference is HMRC are interested now.

[spence0175]

Yes where do you draw the line. I am a hobby seller. Was buying a joblot. Keep what I wanted and sell on the rest to further a collection. Only I went legit… 

In the category I mostly sell on, is full of hobby sellers who have convinced themselves they are private and not a business even though they are acting like a business with some having even more items for sale than me.

I see it all the time being discussed on fb forums. 
This will never be resolved no matter how much it is discussed and until EBay come up with some plan that makes everyone more equal, this us and them will never go away…and just makes business sellers more resentful…

I wonder though how many have turned business since the new rules were introduced. I bet not as many as those who turned private….