Why are so many middle-aged men committing suicide?

[fallen-archie]

I recently attended a meeting at the local University, During this the topic turned to the growing problem of Male suicide. I was shocked to learn that the ratio of male to female suicide had reached 4:1 and that there was an alarming increase in men aged between 44 and 59. Those figures were from 2013 since then the upward trend has continued. Seemingly the bulk of cases have at some time suffered from depressive illness and or accute anxiety. What do you think is causing this change? when we are supposedly better off than ever living longer and having free health care what drives peolpe to despair so much that their only means of dealing with it is to take their own life.

[cee-dee]

I think it's a complicated subject, too complicated to generalise.

Who know what the reason is? Many years back, I worked for a bloke with 3 sons, two of them had their own separate successful company, plenty of work, no company debts.

Suddenly, one of them went off and hung himself. Married, children, no marital problems, no money worries, got a nice car and a house as well and everything going for him.

What struck him to drive off, walk in to a wood and string himself up? No-one could fathom it out. I suppose there's a lot like that? Sudden feeling of hopelessness at many more years before them?

[aernethril]

Some time ago - cannot remember where I read it - but it was an article about a very successful, very rich, very well respected guy in the finance industry who one day just gave it all up.

He decided to go into repairing cars, bought a small garage in a rural area and never looked back.

His take on it was that people needed to use their hands / bodies and brains to get a better balance of really feeling fulfilled and have pride in their work and themselves - and to feel true contentment.

I believe we have no idea of the pressure that builds up when people are essentially using just their brains to be constantly solving problems, taking complex decisions, worrying for the future, etc and how all of that affects the fine balance between feeling well fulfilled and feeling the whole thing is totally useless.

And in a way, I think just doing some kind of relatively mindless fitness/gym work only adds to that.

But, give a person something like a shed to potter in and plant seeds, go fishing, tinker with an old motor etc and the conflict of constant repetitive brain activity with no physical output is more balanced.

It also doesn't help that we have become so mindlessly materialistic that the pressure to keep getting the latest / best / whatever is perceived to be 'needed' is another contribulary factor to the feeling of it all being utterly useless to contine.

The term 'rat race' is still as prevalent today asa it's always been.

[fallen-archie]

That is an inspiring anecdote which I can empathise with. I have an aquaintance I've known for around 35 years he has had limited formal education, has never been unemployed and through a natural interest and in part necessity has taught himself a wide range of skills Blacksmith, Wood worker, Engineer. His life is simple, unaffected by materialism yet his work is of the highest quality. His prices are reasonable yet he makes a comfortable living. Perhaps we are becoming too tied up with the competitive workplace working for people promoted beyond their level of competance, perhaps we Lose it in middle age as the next bunch of high flyers take to the career ladder or perhaps it is just presure endless pressure. Whatever it is there are far too many casualties for the problem to be ignored.

[bookhunter2007]

---

@aernethril wrote:

Some time ago - cannot remember where I read it - but it was an article about a very successful, very rich, very well respected guy in the finance industry who one day just gave it all up.

He decided to go into repairing cars, bought a small garage in a rural area and never looked back.

His take on it was that people needed to use their hands / bodies and brains to get a better balance of really feeling fulfilled and have pride in their work and themselves - and to feel true contentment.

I believe we have no idea of the pressure that builds up when people are essentially using just their brains to be constantly solving problems, taking complex decisions, worrying for the future, etc and how all of that affects the fine balance between feeling well fulfilled and feeling the whole thing is totally useless.

And in a way, I think just doing some kind of relatively mindless fitness/gym work only adds to that.

But, give a person something like a shed to potter in and plant seeds, go fishing, tinker with an old motor etc and the conflict of constant repetitive brain activity with no physical output is more balanced.

It also doesn't help that we have become so mindlessly materialistic that the pressure to keep getting the latest / best / whatever is perceived to be 'needed' is another contribulary factor to the feeling of it all being utterly useless to contine.

---

Good points. I think on one hand, Anomie is a significant driver in male suicides - particularly for those who have experienced cultural change in what's expected of gender roles - and more specifically the willingness to "talk" about depression; to both peers and medical professionals:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomie#Social_disorder

On the other hand, Austerity seems to have had a significant impact, particularly in countries and regions which have been  hardest hit.

http://www.imt.ie/news/latest-news/2015/06/recession-significant-impact-suicide-self-harm.html

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102395651

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/feb/19/number-of-suicides-uk-increases-2013-male-rate-highes...

"The UK suicide rate was 11.9 deaths per 100,000 people. The north-east had the highest rate in England at 13.8 deaths per 100,000, while London had the lowest with 7.9. The male suicide rate has increased significantly since 2007, the ONS said, while female rates have stayed relatively constant and were consistently lower than those for men."

[vamo48]

The only thought that comes to me on this subject is that men find it very hard to admit having a problem, or to ask for help, and convince themselves there is only one way out.  Women generally find it easier to discuss their feelings.

[astrologica]

And even when they can acknowledge that they are at risk of suicide, or just depressed, the waiting lists for counselling or talking therapy on the NHS are horrendous. A friend of mine was suffering from depression and was told the waiting list for counselling was six months. A few weeks later he took his own life.

[malacandran]

---

@astrologica wrote:
And even when they can acknowledge that they are at risk of suicide, or just depressed, the waiting lists for counselling or talking therapy on the NHS are horrendous. A friend of mine was suffering from depression and was told the waiting list for counselling was six months. A few weeks later he took his own life.

---

It seems to me, that people who want to commit suicide, should just go ahead and do it.

Without causing unnecessary strain on the NHS, by requesting "counselling", before they do it.

Surely, the NHS is here to protect and preserve the lives of people who don't want to die?

If someone does want to die,  they can do it easily, for example by jumping off a tall building.

Or in many other ways, without involving the NHS.

[astrologica]

You maybe have a good point there Malacandran. I am sure there are some people who genuinely want to die. But what about those people who do not want to die, but are plagued with suicidal thoughts? Some people are helped by having counselling and are able to sort their thoughts and their lives out and go on to be happy people. An aquaintance of mine was so unhappy at one stage of his life that he tried to take his own life twice. First time he jumped off a bridge into a river,but landed in the mud on the banks. Second time he jumped in front of a train, but he just had a badly broken arm. He had treatment and recovered and then went on to have a really happy life. Those who are determined to end their lives may have several attempts but will usually succeed eventually. It is tragic when people take their own lives...they solve their own problems,but their family and friends are the ones that suffer.

[fallen-archie]

I wonder if we have lost the way to appreciate and enjoy life. We get one chance and we should make the most of it, trouble is the pressures are enormous and whether you have wealth and privilege or you don't know where the next penny is coming from the agenda for life may seem beyond your control. The media supply a constant feed of stories which are negative, they sensationalise trivia and sadly some of that sticks. The rise of mental health problems is a worrying one, the way in which people communicate and converse can easily press the wrong button in a vulnerable individual however society promotes the me me me principle and weakness is seen as an opportunity to strike, bit like the jungle. But what do I know? fact is those who take their own lives seldom reveal the reason and without that we can only summise.

[malacandran]

You mention two examples of a person apparently attempting to commit suicide:

1.  Jumped off bridge into river, but landed in mud on banks

2.  Jumped in front of train, but only got broken arm

These examples show such incompetence, that I can't believe the attempts were genuine.

More likely, they were a cry for help. Which could have been better answered, if the person had gone to their GP for some sedative pills, like Prozac.   Or started drinking a few cans of strong lager each day, chilling out, and reflecting on life.

Instead of jumping off things theatrically.  Who needs such silly antics - aren't they too daft for any serious person to even consider?

[fallen-archie]

You do jest Sir, people pushed to the point of suicide and who attempt suicide however ill planned, these are people who need help. Lets not trivialise tragedy.

[malacandran]

---

@fallen-archie wrote:

You do jest Sir, people pushed to the point of suicide and who attempt suicide however ill planned, these are people who need help. Lets not trivialise tragedy.

---

If someone wishes to commit suicide, why should they stopped from doing it?

Who are you to say, they've got to be prevented from exercising their right to free-will?

[bookhunter2007]

---

@malacandran wrote:

---

If someone wishes to commit suicide, why should they stopped from doing it?

Who are you to say, they've got to be prevented from exercising their right to free-will?

---

In the case of Germanwings Flight 9525, sometimes there is more than one victim.

Think that is enough to suggest good access to mental health care is the way ahead.

[astrologica]

He did at the time become the subject of a few jokes! But later, when he felt better,he was able to joke about it himself. But he still insisted that they were genuine suicide attempts. They might seem daft to us who are not in such dire straits, but people who attempt suicide cannot be thinking straight can they? And a lot of suicidal people have to take to the drink in order to do it.

[fallen-archie]

If a person wishes to be euthenased due to terminal illness I have great sympathy and would vote to allow it here with a few safeguards. Suicide is different, often the victims have lost the will to live and or have forgotten how to live and that is different. They may have been bullied at work, perhaps they feel inadequate or useless because they are taken for granted.
As an earlier post said this is a complex area and one which is not easily resolved.

[malacandran]

---

@bookhunter2007 wrote:

---

@malacandran wrote:

---

If someone wishes to commit suicide, why should they stopped from doing it?

Who are you to say, they've got to be prevented from exercising their right to free-will?

---

In the case of Germanwings Flight 9525, sometimes there is more than one victim.

Think that is enough to suggest good access to mental health care is the way ahead.

---

Specious, bookhunter. Unworthy of you!  

[cee-dee]

One thing often overlooked (or swept under the carpet) in some cases where men have "hung" themselves is that the inquest verdict should have not only mentioned death by asphyxiation but should have added that the victim "died during an act of self-gratification!

[margaret*e]

Re this bit, maybe it's because I'm a bit slow , but I couldn't see anything wrong with this.

Feel free to enlighten me

n the case of Germanwings Flight 9525, sometimes there is more than one victim.

Think that is enough to suggest good access to mental health care is the way ahead.

---

Plus having expeienced trying to get help for someone, and finding out how difficult it was, for once I agree wit BH.

[malacandran]

Yes, I also agree with BH's post. My comment about it being "specious" was wrong.  I withdraw the comment, with apologies to BH.

There is indeed a profound difference between two things:

1. Commiting suicide in private. That's a matter for the individual person to decide.  If you're so unhappy that you want to die, then kill yourself.  That's fair enough.

2. Commiting suicide, by deliberately piloting your passenger-plane into a mountain - so killing not just yourself, but all the other persons on board, who don't want to die. That's an unfair, selfish and contemptible criminal act.   

It's not easy to see why anyone would want to commit suicide in that way. Unless it's from a feeling that:  "I'm going out, so I'll take these others with me."  Which might give a perverse feeling of satisfaction - "The world's made me unhappy, so here's my revenge on you all"

I can kinda see the point of that attitude, but it doesn't appeal to me.  Like most people, I've occasionally contemplated "ending it all".

But as a strictly private affair - not creating distress to people who are in no way involved!