Tragedy at sea

[fallen-archie]

Each day we get reports of deaths and coast guards picking up people in the English Channel, the latest batch seem to be coming from Iran, I have never been there and I only know what I hear on TV about the regime that rules said country, it is said that most of those seeking asylum here do so for fear of persecution, what I would like to know is why do they come to Britain risking so much to escape France by inflatable boat to make the perilous trip across the English Channel paying someone thousands for the privilege. Why are we such a magnet for refugees when as a country we are struggling with austerity and a crisis of rough sleepers on the streets. It has been suggested that as many as 4ml children are living in abject poverty in the U.K. due in part to the extortionate cost of housing and a lack of affordable housing, so how do these refugees expect to find somewhere to live?
At a time of compassion what are we to do to help those in need thus avoiding a hostile environment?

[upthecreekyetagain]

Worth a read.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/09/we-want-to-work-refugees-tell-france-why-uk-is-so-attr...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/series/the-new-arrivals

[cee-dee]

If they "want to work" they're not asylum seekers, they're "economic migrants".

If Syria (and all those other places they come from) was that bad, they'd seek "asylum" in the first country they got to.

[astrologica]

These people are not our problem. The EU encouraged them to come to Europe, so they are France's problem. They are not in danger in France, they are perfectly safe. They WANT to come to Britain because it is the equivalent of winning the lottery to arrive here.  There are desperately poor people already living here..we should be giving them homes, not people who just fancy living here because we are so soft. I would like to live in Florida, because it's nice and warm for my old bones, but if I turned up there I would be put on the first plane back out. We need to pick these people up if they are in danger, and take them back to France. Just a few returned boatloads would send the correct message. The more we let in, the more will come...and with our exit from the EU on the horizon, it will only escalate.

[upthecreekyetagain]

Don’t asylum seekers want to work?

[joe_bloggs*]

Isn't it strange that those people concerned about asylum seekers suddelny appear concerned about our own homeless people or those here living in poverty ?

[upthecreekyetagain]

If we leave the EU without some kind of deal and the likes of Rees-Mogg and Johnson get their way for a hard Brexit then there won’t be any need for these migrants to use rubber dinghies. 

The hard Brexiteers plans depend on low taxes, low welfare and cheap labour to create a Singaporean like state off the coast of Europe - don’t expect immigration to fall if they get their way.

If you don’t believe that’s what they are aiming for then just look at their voting record.

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24926/jacob_rees-mogg/north_east_somerset/votes#reform

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10999/boris_johnson/uxbridge_and_south_ruislip/votes

[cee-dee]

Don’t asylum seekers want to work?

No, they want to twist our system, get as much as they can, by any means they can, then send as much as they can "back home" then jaunt back and to for as long as they can before they swan off back there to live a life of luxury (compared to the rest of their countrymen).

If they really wanted a safe asylum and intergrate in to their safe haven to show their grtitude, they'd stop at the first safe country they got to.

This country has far too many people who see good in every twisting neer-do-well. They used to be called do-gooders but isn't the "new" buzz-word "snowflakes"?

[upthecreekyetagain]

Your evidence for that rant is ???

For every example you can come up with of an immigrant “scrounger” there will be tens, if not hundreds, more that have successfully settled in the UK and are contributing to our society.

I would hope that if you lived in an area of the UK where you couldn’t find employment you’d move to another area where you could - having said that there are many who wouldn’t and would just complain that the government has failed them or that the ‘foreigners’ have taken all the jobs and expect to be supported without making an effort themselves.  

Anyone who has travelled thousands of miles, spent what in their own country would be a small fortune and risked their lives to reach the UK or any other country, haven’t done so just to idle their life away.

[fallen-archie]

I don’t know what it’s like where you are Joe, but we have so many houses being built many of which are snapped up by private landlords to add to their portfolios. The system here is rotten, I am all for private enterprise but not at the cost of people living on the streets whilst what social housing is available is given to poor souls from Iran and Africa. The saying has always said that charity begins at home and I accept that! We have not taken in as many refugees as Germany or France however we are geographically at least smaller and therefore should take fewer. I don’t want to see anyone suffer, but my father and his forefathers fought for this country and that is what Iranians should do, and many Africans too fight for there birthrights and against corruption, running away won’t solve their problems, I am sorry if that sounds callous but I believe it to be true.

[astrologica]

It is not necessary to signal one's virtue to show that one cares about people who are homeless or living in poverty.

[astrologica]

Whether they work or not doesn't really matter. The very fact that they are here means that they will be taking up housing, medical care, education..all of which this country struggles to provide for the people who live here already. 

[joe_bloggs*]

---

@astrologica wrote:

Whether they work or not doesn't really matter. The very fact that they are here means that they will be taking up housing, medical care, education..all of which this country struggles to provide for the people who live here already. 

---

It is a political choice that this country struggles with Failing NHS services.lack of police,lack of investment in education,etc,Not the fault of asyslum seekers

[fallen-archie]

Why must you try and put those two together Joe? We know the problems of austerity that’s why it’s called austerity, to pursue the politics of envy is plain wrong, have you heard anyone from a government service say that they have enough resources? No, and you are unlikely to whilst austerity is necessary, I can remember when the labour government had a top tax rate of19/6p In the £, when death duties took away the ill gotten gains of the landed gentry and when you could travel abroad but were restricted as to how much you could take with you! It was called exchange controls, but hey ho many cannot remember that or the three day week or the winter of discontent!
Experimenting with socialism never works, unless of course history has got it all wrong!

[astrologica]

It is a political choice to cut funding for all these services..I agree with you on that. But it is also a political choice to allow more and more people into the country who will require those services. It's not difficult to do the math..

[dark_castle1]

If they are asylum seekers why not go through the proper channels instead of being clandestine illegal immigrants ? They cross the channel at night and if they manage to get ashore they disappear into the black economy and try to evade detection and if found after who knows how long they then shout asylum seeker.

[joe_bloggs*]

“Concerns about immigration”? Where does that come from?

https://prruk.org/concerns-about-immigration-where-does-that-come-from/

‘People are expressing concerns about immigration.”

The government laughs quietly to itself:
“People do not blame us for their living standards going down,
they blame immigration.”

BY MICHAEL ROSEN,MICHAEL ROSEN, POETRY

[upthecreekyetagain]

---

@astrologica wrote:

Whether they work or not doesn't really matter. The very fact that they are here means that they will be taking up housing, medical care, education..all of which this country struggles to provide for the people who live here already. 

---

And that struggle is getting harder - 

Housing:-  Currently 34% of unskilled construction labour is made up of EU nationals, 11% of skilled workers.

Health:- “In 2015-16, 19% of nurses joining the NHS were of EU nationality, while in 2017-18 this fell to 8%. Meanwhile, the percentage of nurses leaving the NHS with an EU nationality rose from 9% to 13%.”

Education:- 5% of teachers are EU nationals

Care Workers:- 17% are first generation immigrants

“. . . . in the second quarter of 2018, the latest for which figures are available, more EU citizens may have left the UK than arrived in the UK, for the first time in more than eight years . . . “

BBC News Reality Check. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46618532

[fallen-archie]

Yeah yeah joe, I wondered when you would wheel out Michael Rosen, he of course has a point about housing and the impact it has on working lives, what he doesn’t mention is that despite this the rate of building forges on. When the bubble finally bursts it will be under a labour government and people will lose their savings and their ability to holiday on the never never, at that point the s**t will really hit the fan and you can guarantee that the blame will fall squarely on labour! So if I were you I would be campaigning more strategically than simply saying that JC will be for the many! Especially as the few will jump ship so quickly there will be fewer people to fleece, so it looks to me that we could become the second Venezuela and Jezza is a very nice man, for now!!!

[joe_bloggs*]

How bad must life be in Iran that you’d risk everything to move to a country where Theresa May is the Prime Minister?