Brexit scaremongering is coming to pass

[al**bear]

So

The Pounds in the Toilet (Even with massive Bank of England backing) 31 year low

Businesses in panic over rising import costs

Companies & Financial Institutions are readying plans to leave the UK

Ex-pats in limbo, over whither they'll be allowed to stay in Spain, France etc

UK Property Portfolio Funds are crashing or being suspended before they crash

Violence and abuse against Foreigners has risen sharply

British shares are falling (FTSE100 mostly made up of Foreign & MultiNationals seen as safe haven)

Banks all across Europe on the Brink again (their shares have collapsed)

Loads of Bonds are at their lowest levels ever

Governor of the Bank of England issues warnings

George Osborne drops His mainstay Policy and issues warnings over the future

BUT IT'S OK -

IT'S ONLY SCAREMONGERING

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@mikes*corvettes wrote:

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

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@mikes*corvettes wrote:

You missed out that before all this the Americans fought a war to gain their Independence and control their own sovereignty against England.

The union works because all the people are Americans and all pull together for the greater good of THEIR country and are not ruled over by other nations and cultures.

Perhaps your fathers vision of a federal Europe is not one that the rest of us agree with.

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It wasn't all the American States that fought the British - just 13 of the Northern States - something many of the Southern States are keen to 'forget'.

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Irrespective It still remains that the federal system works in the States because it's all done in house and not handed out to non Americans to deal with.

We more or less have the same system in place here with Parliament, the Welsh Assembly, the Scottish Parliament and the Northern Ireland Executive.

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And aren't we all Europeans?

[mikes*corvettes]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

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@triasic wrote:

I don't know why you are bringing the American Civil War into it.     The result was that the Northern side and the Soutern side came together.  In other words, Americans uniting with other Americans.   It is totally different from wanting the UK to unite with the continent who are NOT the same nationality!

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Read your American history - it wasn't just 'Americans' as you put it - it was a whole host of nationalities that fought both the War of Independence and the Civil War.  The US is built on a foundation of many cooperating together to become stronger by virtue of size.

The federal system became a success when the independent states recognised that by working together they all became stronger as have the 'new' states that joined the Union, such as Hawaii and Alaska, at a later date.

A Federal Union of Europe will become a reality at some stage and we may end up regretting not being a part of it.

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Do you ever bother to read a post and digest it before posting ?

I said the present federal system in the States works because it's all done in house by Americans.

I for one will not regret being involved in a Federal Europe

[mikes*corvettes]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

---

@mikes*corvettes wrote:

---

@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

---

@mikes*corvettes wrote:

You missed out that before all this the Americans fought a war to gain their Independence and control their own sovereignty against England.

The union works because all the people are Americans and all pull together for the greater good of THEIR country and are not ruled over by other nations and cultures.

Perhaps your fathers vision of a federal Europe is not one that the rest of us agree with.

---

It wasn't all the American States that fought the British - just 13 of the Northern States - something many of the Southern States are keen to 'forget'.

---

Irrespective It still remains that the federal system works in the States because it's all done in house and not handed out to non Americans to deal with.

We more or less have the same system in place here with Parliament, the Welsh Assembly, the Scottish Parliament and the Northern Ireland Executive.

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And aren't we all Europeans?

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Don't know about you but I'm British, Europe is a collective name for a group of countries.

[upthecreekyetagain]

I'm British as well, in the same way that if you ask someone from Houston they'll say they're Texan.

[joe_bloggs*]

Ich bin ein Geordie

[triasic]

You are obviously much more well-read than I am in American history, so no point in me saying anything else on the subject!   I bow to your superior knowledge!

But, the referendum has been held. 

It was made abundantly clear during the campaign that the decision would be final!

The majority voted to leave the EEC!

If the majority had voted to remain, with  only a few hundred more votes than the leavers, and the leavers demanded another referndum, the cry would have gone up "the majority want to remain, the decision is final!"

So really, if you wanted to remain, it is a case of "hard cheese," we are leaving!

Is it your hope that leaving will be a disaster for Britain, so that you can say "I told you so?"

Or are you going to work hard to ensure that we prosper?

[fallen-archie]

I voted to remain but I fully accept that the will of the people should be followed. There are bound to be those who feel unhappy and others who question the claims made by both sides and upon which people made up their minds. We should still be able to clarify certain things without being accused of a lack of backbone or sour grapes. Debate should address both points of view and people need to recognise how to respond. 

There is a case in the media currently where a pensioner asked a guy to refrain from urinating against his house. The offender had a number of choices how to respond including "saying sorry and protesting his need to pee" Instead he repeatedly punched and kicked the old guy until his face was blue and deformed. 

[triasic]

Yes, I agree.     If the vote had been to remain (as I fully expected it would), I would have just put it out of my mind and got on with it.   Certainly wouldn't have wasted any energy moaning about it!        I am now ready to cope with the invetiable problems  that will probably come along, from the "haven't got our own way, so we will make it as difficult as possible for those who did" brigade, safe in the knowledge that it will all turn out for the best!   

PS.   The bit in red is not aimed at you, who  as far as I am concerend, has got the right attitude about it!

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@triasic wrote:

You are obviously much more well-read than I am in American history, so no point in me saying anything else on the subject!   I bow to your superior knowledge!

But, the referendum has been held. 

It was made abundantly clear during the campaign that the decision would be final!

The majority voted to leave the EEC!

If the majority had voted to remain, with  only a few hundred more votes than the leavers, and the leavers demanded another referndum, the cry would have gone up "the majority want to remain, the decision is final!"

So really, if you wanted to remain, it is a case of "hard cheese," we are leaving!

Is it your hope that leaving will be a disaster for Britain, so that you can say "I told you so?"

Or are you going to work hard to ensure that we prosper?

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Not at all - I really do hope that we get favourable terms with Europe on our exit and that we do manage to make a success as an independent nation and don't suffer economically.

That having been said it is foolish not to recognise that there may well be problems ahead and I don't accept either that "the decision is final".  The government have a duty to follow the will of the people and should be negotiating wholeheartedly to achieve that. But no decision is ever "final - if it were we wouldn't have had the latest one.

Let me ask - if negotiations result in a Norway type deal where we remain members of the single market, accept the continued free movement of labour and makes British industry subject to EU regulations would you accept that or demand a further referendum?

PS - American history is fascinating and well worth reading up on.

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@mikes*corvettes wrote:

---

@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

---

@triasic wrote:

I don't know why you are bringing the American Civil War into it.     The result was that the Northern side and the Soutern side came together.  In other words, Americans uniting with other Americans.   It is totally different from wanting the UK to unite with the continent who are NOT the same nationality!

---

Read your American history - it wasn't just 'Americans' as you put it - it was a whole host of nationalities that fought both the War of Independence and the Civil War.  The US is built on a foundation of many cooperating together to become stronger by virtue of size.

The federal system became a success when the independent states recognised that by working together they all became stronger as have the 'new' states that joined the Union, such as Hawaii and Alaska, at a later date.

A Federal Union of Europe will become a reality at some stage and we may end up regretting not being a part of it.

---

Do you ever bother to read a post and digest it before posting ?

I said the present federal system in the States works because it's all done in house by Americans.

I for one will not regret being involved in a Federal Europe

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The point you seem to be ignoring is that at the time of the War of Independence they were NOT all Americans - there was no such thing apart from the native Indians.

[triasic]

I would accept it, and I would not join the throngs demanding another referendum.     If the present referendum is reversed, I will no longer be voting for anything or anyone!   Cannot abide "flexirules!"     But, at the same time, I will make every effort to make things work!

Not being a politician, I have done everything I can to ensure Britain's future prosperity by voting out!    It is now up to the politicians to honour their statement that it is final, and make some effort to work for Britain.

Also, before anyone starts howling about immigration, I don't mind the ones we already have staying, as long as they remain peaceful and hard-working.        

[upthecreekyetagain]

The reason I asked was because Aaron Banks, (co-founder of the Leave.eu campaign and founder of UKIP), said today on tv that if the UK went with the 'Norway option' it would be a betrayal of the referendum decision.

[upthecreekyetagain]

The reason I asked was because Aaron Banks, (co-founder of the Leave.eu campaign and founder of UKIP), said today on tv that if the UK went with the 'Norway option' it would be a betrayal of the referendum decision.

[fallen-archie]

Well there is of course the small matter of the renegotiation. There will no doubt be disagreements over who does it, how it's done, why Europe will play hardball to protect the membership perks, France will no doubt wish to cherry pick a few big wins given half a chance. There will need to be a massive saving to inject £350m a week into the NHS and finally a stop to the free movement of labour. This is far from over, it is yet to begin and whichever way one voted can anyone see a potential result emerging capable of satisfying the majority.

[mikes*corvettes]

We've done our bit, now it's up to OUR politicians to negotiate and not a bunch of faceless merchant bankers in Brussels.

[upthecreekyetagain]

Negotiations which will be led by an unelected Prime Minister who could well be someone who campaigned against Brexit.

[astrologica]

I agree with Mr Banks. A Norway type deal is not what most Brexit voters want. I voted to leave...with an end to free movement of people to the UK. Anything less than that would be a betrayal. This country has had enough immigration..we cannot cope with any more. And, the sooner Article 50 is invoked, the better.

[upthecreekyetagain]

That is the problem with a 'simplistic' vote.

You and many million more I'm sure, voted for an exit from the single market and an end to freedom of movement, millions possibly had different reasons for voting the way they did - the regaining of sovereignty and the right of Parliament to make decisions for example.

If Parliament do negotiate remaining a member of the single market then wouldn't that be a 'sovereign' decision?

If Theresa May becomes PM she has already said that any decision to invoke article 50 won't be made this year!

I too want article 50 invoked as soon as possible so that the current uncertainty regarding our position in the World can be brought to an end.

[joe_bloggs*]

Anyone else seen this?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/labour-tory-mps-talk

"Tory and Labour MPs have held informal discussions about establishing a new political party in the event of Andrea Leadsom becoming prime minister and Jeremy Corbyn staying as Labour leader, a cabinet minister has disclosed"

I voted remain and except the result,but i  am beginning to think that the establishment really are trying to undermine democracy on so many fronts

[cee-dee]

Those considering attempting to create a "new" party should be singing a new song?:-

Turncoats of the world unite,

You all knew just what was right.

People shouldn't feel that way,

Betraying someone every day.

Snuff the fire of defecters bright,

Turncoats of the world unit.