return policy infringement

[xrv-jon]

I am becoming more and more bothered with private sellers trading multiple items who should be registered as a business with "No returns Accepted" I have sold on Ebay for many years  and advised some time ago to open my store as a business due to volume of sales and currently offer 60 day returns .Is this something Ebay have chosen now to ignore or are these sellers monitored and advised .Yes i am aware the amount of people selling on Ebay but after various purchases recently and a change of mind it becomes frustrating and obvious .

[vinylscot]

You obviously have never taken the time to read these boards. That is, by a long, long, way, the most discussed subject on these boards. It finds its way into almost every post, even when it's totally irrelevant to the question being asked.

[plpmr]

Not only do those sellers do eBay out of fees they have a serious advantage over business sellers.

however, lately I've seen a number of properly registered business sellers with illegal 'no returns accepted'.

[xrv-jon]

This is the point i was trying to get over unfortunately I havnt got time to sit and search or read old posts on this topic . It’s just very annoying when you see it so often

[simplyessential_uk]

And as of last week if one of these accounts posts on the forum with a non related question and their "illegal status"  its pointed out to them, this in future will be against community rules, which has ruffled alot of feathers. Ebay make a big chunk of money from these private "business" sellers with their illegal "side hustles" making money undeclared to HMRC tax, not having to conform to distance selling regs or returns and it only goes to reinforce ppls poor experience on ebay as they continue to allow it. 

[xrv-jon]

i rest my case and will continue in future with my own business dont want to rustle any more feathers ;-(

[kath3735_wxmjn]

when did this latest farcical rule come in?  I am a private seller but can fully understand why business sellers get upset with 'private sellers' who are not. 

[vinylscot]

I hadn't heard about this change in the rules; there's certainly nothing about it in the community guidelines, so I'd be interested to see where this idea has come from. However, to be fair, it really shouldn't be as necessary to point it out any more. eBay/HMRC will uncover the bogus accounts in time, as long as eBay is also doing something about it. 

While I agree that bogus private sellers is a huge problem and annoyance, the obsession many posters have with it has virtually ruined these boards. Many interesting discussions became completely sidetracked by this often irrelevant (and often erroneous) accusation.

[the_book_seekers]

Many interesting discussions became completely sidetracked by this often irrelevant (and often erroneous) accusation.

Not always the case. There are occassions that the poster's status effects the answer to be given and the discussion has to be had. We then get into the arguement as to whether the poster should've been called out or not. Restricting discussion on the subject will just add to the anger.

[signs_and_vintage]

The reality is that there is no such thing as 'no returns' on eBay full stop, save the rare exception of collections for cash in person (and even then I've had the poor lambs angry Dad come round trying to intimidate me...*).

If someone wants to return something on ebay, they merely have to come up with the flimsiest of excuses and open a case for rapid free returns with zero scrutiny of the condition the item comes back in, or at all, and eBay will pony up your money for you. There is no protection from returns for any seller, and for those doing business (realistically) a far worse landscape for challenging fraud and making reasonable (and legal) deductions for wear and tear than in an independently run business.

*I sold a spare jukebox wallbox, it was double clear in the auction that it did not play tunes on its own, I explained to the kid how he would have to source and connect up a separate hideaway mechanism, he handed over the £50 and drove off in his big-bore 'zaust Saxo, need I say more...

[pg_kicks]

It wont though, HMRC issue has nothing to do with eBay failing to force accounts to stick to the law. I could (if I wanted) have a private account yet still do a tax return for a business selling £50k worth of items. Seems like eBay are very slowly acting, should be a lot faster though, it would actually help the site out.

[pg_kicks]

How do you not have returns accepted on a business account? Mine is just automatically set as returns accepted, didnt even know I could change it, surely its just a bug in the system that allows that.

[simplyessential_uk]

Its being discussed on the community mentors lounge page (which only mentors access)  and its been greatly discussed and the guideline changes  are forthcoming, with great annoyance by many of us,  so you havent heard about them yet but theyre coming. Whats annoying is those private (business) sellers are posting Qs complaining about xyz on Ebay but yet cashing in on the 80% off fees. Yes HMRC will be on their cases but not til 2025 (but will be asking for 2024 figures) of individuals

[the_book_seekers]

What reason has ebay given for this?

[divinedressesdaily]

the sellers in question write " strictly no returns " or "no returns accepted" in their descriptions in direct contradication to the " returns accepted " that is legally shown on their business listings which as you correctly point out is there automatically .

Obviously its illegal and meaningless however ...... I have lost count of the the potential buyers who message me to ask if I do actually take returns for change of mind /does not fit as a number of sellers in my category dont - even though its stated on their business listings that they do !

I know of at least 2 business sellers in the Mother of the Bride area who have this  "No returns" inserted into their descriptions - last weekend I had a buyer offer me a lower price for an outfit on the grounds that if it didnt fit she would have to re sell it as under ebay rules she couldnt send it back !

When I explained that she could return for a refund but that I was puzzled she thought she couldnt - it turned out she had asked one of these sellers about their return policy to be told that ebay " make them have returns accepted " but that they dont take change of mind returns - their loss - I had a £250 sale and the lady didnt need to avail of her legal right to return as the outfit both fitted and suited her .

Unfortunately this is just another thing that gives the site a bad image and does not instil confidence in buyers - I have reported these sellers but as yet their listings still state they dont take returns - I didnt expect anything to be done really 

[kath3735_wxmjn]

so will these new rules (as far as you know at the moment) mean that a discussion could be directly about private/business sellers status  set up as a topic on its own?  If so i can see that one running and running and  although you could not call an individual out at least steam could be let off and e bay (who we know do not really care) could actually see the real anger some of you feel (rightly so by the way) OR will they just be banning the topic completely?

[simplyessential_uk]

im not sure youre asking me this but if so: Ebay said that if a poster asks a Q it isnt up to others to determine their  "correct" status and refuse to answer or sidetrack on the member2member area, Admin said that rule would extend to all of the forum but the detail will be rolled out soon. in new community guidelines. 

Imo sticking their head in the sand to the thing which effects their reputation and restricts discussions is not good

[vinylscot]

I agree with your "sticking their head in the sand" comment, but it would greatly improve the flow and the quality of the forums.

You would like to think they will be planning some enforcement measures behind the scenes. I can imagine the publicity might be pretty horrendous, if they don't.

[plpmr]

"the sellers in question write " strictly no returns " or "no returns accepted" in their descriptions in direct contradication to the " returns accepted " that is legally shown on their business listings which as you correctly point out is there automatically.".

Unfortunately no so.

My point was that the 'no returns accepted' is not in their description but actually on their business listings and its not a bug.

I belive eBay are looking into this workround some sellers are using.

[ett1954]

@simplyessential_uk   Perhaps, just maybe, eBay are taking this action as they will be monitoring sellers themselves and dumping this AI dross that currently tells you they can find nothing untoward with any report you make.  Fantasy I know.

I have a competitor ('private' seller, feedback in the thousands over just a few years) with over a 1,000 listings, which includes produced CDs with newspaper/magazine issues (outside of copyright - so no issues there) being sold to order and with the option of digital delivery (another policy violation).  I struggle to maintain a thousand listings as most items are 'one-offs' and original items, not downloaded from public archives.   Obviously I cannot compete.  Reported to eBay as incorrectly registered, showing no business details and subsequently an illegal returns policy.  eBay response - AI sees no problem!

Another scenario: eBay are concerned that HMRC will be overwhelmed by the number of people trading on eBay in 12 months time and not submitting the required self assessments.  This may well prompt HMRC to look at the reasons why.  These forums are a public record and the information they contain, although over the top at times, would be incriminating.  By stopping any discussion they may hope to mitigate this.

There would always be the possibility that HMRC may view eBay as being complicit, and therefore culpable, in tax evasion resulting in the introduction of financial penalties as they did with businesses not being VAT registered several years ago - which eBay, as a result, now strictly monitor.  Ultimately this type of action is what will minimise unregistered business sellers on eBay.  eBay does not seem to understand that these sellers have a negative impact on both business sellers and genuine private sellers.