Royal Mail says delivered, regular customer says not !

[carbtec]

Just had a regular customer querying their non delivery. RM tracking says "delivered". Looking closer at the tracking info it says delivered to safespace & card left with GPS co-ordinates at this customers address.

So why have they left a large letter in a safespace???

My large letters are 100% standard letter sized but 10-12mm thick, so I have to send them all as LL. Why has the postie taken this LL on his round, scanned it, then done god knows what with it???

[tressygirl]

You as a seller have done all you can from your side of the transaction,  that is,  you have tracking to show the item was delivered.  Perhaps the item was too wide and they didn't want to bend it to place through a narrow letterbox ?

You have no control how and why or where,  a postie leaves an item.

Your buyer was told where the item was left,  they can ask their postie any questions they have re this delivery,  but for yourself,  with tracking showing the item reached its destination, you do not have to refund your buyer.

[1956glyn]

Hi

Strictly speaking you do not need to refund your buyer as the tracking says delivered.

As this is a regular customer then i would try and assist them in locating the item via the carrier.

I have no clue of the value of the order or how regular a customer they are...........but i am wondering is it worth just refunding them to keep them happy as a regular customer (obv depending on how much they spend with you) ??

[carbtec]

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@carbtec wrote:

My large letters are 100% standard letter sized but 10-12mm thick, so I have to send them all as LL. Why has the postie taken this LL on his round, scanned it, then done god knows what with it???

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They must have the label in order to scan it & the GPS co-ordinates confirm it was scanned at the correct address. What is in RM's system that makes them do this & not just do god knows what with the LL after leaving the DO ???

[mod81]

I had a similar issue recently where the postie put the package through my neighbours letter box by mistake and so it was scanned as delivered but I hadn't received it. I only realised this when the proof of delivery photo showed a black door and mine is white so I knew it wasn't my house.
Posties are human and mistakes do occur where something says its delivered but it could be to the wrong address, so its worth asking the buyer to check its not gone to a neighbours address by mistake.

[4_bathrooms]

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@1956glyn wrote:

Strictly speaking you do not need to refund your buyer as the tracking says delivered.

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Strictly, strictly speaking the OP does need to refund or send a replacement as the OP is a business and their customer is (presumably) a consumer. As per the Consumer Contracts Regulations:

"The goods remain at the trader’s risk until they come into the physical possession of—

(a)the consumer, or

(b)a person identified by the consumer to take possession of the goods."

As per the OP the tracking states "delivered to safespace & card left" which means it wasn't delivered into the physical possession of their buyer. Although their buyer might not have any recourse via eBay if they were to raise a claim with their bank or through MCOL they would almost certainly win such a claim due to the above. I highly doubt things are going to go that far; it sounds like the OP is more than willing to sort things out with their (regular) buyer.

As I understand it if something is pushed through a letterbox that would count as coming into the physical possession of the buyer. Although that isn't the letter of the law I believe it meets the spirit of it as a County Court summons has a similar requirement but is usually sent via Royal Mail Tracked without a signature requirement. However, for whatever reason the postie in the OP's case chose not to push the envelope through the buyer's letterbox so the item wasn't delivered into their buyer's physical possession by any definition.  

[1956glyn]

Hi

My response was in relation to how Ebay would deal with it..maybe i should have made that clear when responding.    I am fully aware of the Law as i am 99% sure the OP is 🙂

[4_bathrooms]

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@carbtec wrote:

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What is in RM's system that makes them do this & not just do god knows what with the LL after leaving the DO ???

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It's in their "Safeplace" terms:

"Can you leave my item in a Safeplace if I haven’t made a specific request?

If you are not at home to accept delivery, we may deliver your item to a Safeplace location at the address without a specific instruction from you. In that case, it will only be if our Postperson deems that location to be within our guidelines (see “What is acceptable as a ‘Safeplace’?)."

Although RM don't link to it from that page you can find what constitutes a "Safeplace" here:

"What counts as a 'safe place'?

Customers can ask for items to be left in any secure, weatherproof area of the property, as long as it is easily accessible for us.  Examples include a shed, a garage and an enclosed porch. As an example, places we wouldn’t consider safe are bins, including recycling bins, on doorsteps and underneath parked cars.  Alternatively, they can nominate a nearby neighbour to receive delivery of the item."

It might be worth plugging the buyer's postcode into Google Streetview and seeing if there is a shed, garage or enclosed porch accessible from the street. If there isn't and the buyer confirms the item wasn't left with an immediate neighbour (GPS is typically accurate to about 3 metres) I'd suggest sorting out things with the buyer and claiming from RM for the original (non) delivery.

[4_bathrooms]

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@1956glyn wrote:

My response was in relation to how Ebay would deal with it🙂

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I realise it was in relation to how eBay would deal with it but I suspect many business sellers would interpret eBay's decision as the end of their responsibility towards their buyer. eBay actually does a very good job of keeping (correctly registered) business sellers compliant with consumer law but this is one area where eBay sometimes enables businesses to deny consumers their legal rights.  

[bravergrace]

One possible reason for delivering to a "postman-nominated Safespace" (ie chucking it in the recycling bin or behind the hedge), could be that it was bundled up with other items - the reasoning being that if the safespace complied with guidelines to leave the parcel in, it would be fine to leave the large letter there as well.  

Personally, for a regular buyer (and assuming the value was not excessive), I would probably refund the buyer as a goodwill gesture, and ask him to check with the neighbours and the postman just in case. 

If you ask the buyer to open an eBay case, they will lose it as long as you upload the tracking to the case.  It will count against your allowance of "opened cases".

They could appeal the decision - which might result in the appeal being denied, and the buyer feeling "eBay are calling me a liar", or the appeal being upheld (and the money charged to your account, leaving you to appeal to get eBay to refund you), or eBay making a goodwill refund out of eBay funds.

This is all likely to be stressful for you and the buyer - and you may lose the buyer over it.  I don't advocate giving in to thieves, but it seems your buyer honestly hasn't got the item.

[the-nutwood-collection]

Ask your buyer to hunt for the parcel.  One of my buyers' LL was found in the bushes behind the ash bin.  No card was left - however, because it was in a bright white box it was found by chance when hubby took out the ash. 

If you scroll to the bottom of the RM tracking page you'll see a link that says something like 'Delivered, but my buyer doesn't have it'.  This takes you to the RM claim form.  RM might respond - in a couple of month's time.

However,  I had a T48 letterbox sized parcel put through the wrong letterbox.  It's obvious from Google that it's not the buyer's property.  I made a claim.  That was in November.  I'm still trying to get compensation from RM.  This was a regular business customer, so I sent a replacement SD.      

[the_book_seekers]

I had a postman who carried a key to open electricity meter boxes and if they'd fit he'd leave our parcels in there if we weren't home.