Irate buyer claiming INR

[21st_century_digital_empire]

Hi all,

I've got a customer saying they haven't received their order despite RM scanning it as delivered.

They're getting quite angry about it and normally I'd refund to keep the peace, but it's a larger than average order.

I've instructed them to open an INR case which they have done, unfortunately, the RM scan didn't include GSP coordinates so I've contacted them to ask if it can be supplied.

Is there anything else I'm missing?

[sheba-knows-best]

ANy clues in the buyer's feedback - recieved and left for others? Sometimes - not saying this is the case here - you can see clues to a history of cliaming INRs

[sheba-knows-best]

Is it letterbox size or a parcel?

[21st_century_digital_empire]

No, there's not a massive amount of feedback, maybe a couple of dozen and any left for others is over a year old - no negs though.

The only things that cast suspicions are they sent me a message claiming non delivery about 15 minutes after the supposed scan (of course they may have just seen the delivery confirmation email), but in this time they had apparently managed to check with all neighbours and confirm that nothing had been left anywhere (this was all in their initial message). They also went straight in asking for a full refund rather than a replacement. I would refund before sending a replacement anyway, but if it were me I would ask for a replacement.

Of course these things don't prove or disprove anything.

[21st_century_digital_empire]

Oh it was a standard small parcel, no tracking as such just the delivery confirmation scan. (Letterbox sized but over the RM size for LL)

[sheba-knows-best]

It's a guess but I think they are just trying it on. As you say - for a smaller amount you would have just refunded. Had it been a parcel that was too big for a letter box  - it might have been nicked from the doorstep (which is becoming more frequent) - but this doesn't seem to be the case here.

Presumably ebay will protect you in the INR as it was scanned. I don't think you can do more than you have already done.

[resurrectionscooters]

Just bite the bullet and send EVERYTHING tracked, 

I use Evri 3 day for items < £50 and UPS / DPD for more expensive items

EVRI seem fine as long as the packages are small

[goingfishinguk]

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@21st_century_digital_empire wrote:

I've got a customer saying they haven't received their order despite RM scanning it as delivered.

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If they open an INR case they will lose if Royal Mail has scanned it as delivered.

[ojewellery]

Strange things do happen so whilst I agree the scan means eBay will likely side with you, I think its reasonable to take a few steps to see if anything odd has gone on - i.e. delivery to the wrong street, wrong scan button clicked and item gets delivered next day, delivered to another at the same address.

I'd take a several stage approach.

Ask the buyer to check with others at the address, neighbours, previous safe delivered locations and confirm in writing to you that they have done that (even if they've already implied they have.  Ask them to wait 24 or 48 working hours to allow a missdelivery to show up.

Open a customer says non receipt claim but tracking shows delivered claim with royal mail:  https://www.royalmail.com/help/shown-as-delivered-but-customer-has-not-received

I've found this very successful at making parcels materialise - either the posty realises an error or they knock on the door and refresh the recipients memory.

In theory parcels not delivered are now automatically sent out again next round but historically I used to do a redelivery request you've got name and attempted delivery date to generate this.  Its turned up the odd parcel in the past.

If you have duplicates of the items you could consider a duplicate order at a significant discount - if they're genuine a shared loss of the order may be more paletable than full loss.  This has again been taken up by some customers in the past and resulted in a happier experience.

[21st_century_digital_empire]

Thank you for your well considered and detailed reply.

In the first message the buyer sent he'd stated that he had already checked with his neighbours and anywhere the package may have been left.

Other than that I think I've already taken most of the steps you recommed, I did ask him to wait 24 hours (to be fair he did, and then opened the case 24 hours later), but I only filled in the RM non receipt claim yesterday and they said allow 48 hours. I didn't realise the postie might revisit the address, could be awkward if he is pulling a fast one!

I do have duplicates but he's made it quite clear he'll only accept a refund in full at this point, I think I've got until Friday for the case to be escalated so hopefully RM will uncover something by then.

[padanpcparts]

Why do you refund out of interest? Delivery confirmation is job done as far as E-bay is concerned. I would push back to the customer, you can also direct them to where they can make a claim with Royal Mail and if they need any information send it over to them. 

[bravergrace]

You could ring eBay Customer Support, explain your concerns, and ask them to check whether the buyer has a history of making similar claims.  Be careful how you phrase it - CS obviously can't TELL you whether the buyer is a serial fraudster - but you can ask them them to "check and if there is any cause for concern, refer the buyer's account to the team that deals with serial claimants".

Most CS reps are able and willing to do this - as long as they don't think you're asking them to discuss the buyer's sins with you.

When they've checked the buyer, you could ask CS for advice - they'll probably say it's entirely up to you and eBay won't get involved as the tracking shows delivery.  Make sure you enter the tracking number into the case, though, even if it's already in the dispatch record - you don't want to get caught out by not doing things by the book.

The lack of feedback might be a coincidence - some buyers don't leave feedback - or it might indicate that eBay have recently removed a whole chunk of undeserved negatives.  Who knows?

[direct.gifts]

I have had one recently with a delivery scan but no GPS location and buyer claimed it wasn't received

Turned out it had been delivered to a similar road name the other side of town. Luckily the buyer managed to get the parcel the next day.

If there is no GPS location it may indicate a fault by Royal Mail. 

However from what you say buyer goes straight in with having done neighbour checks and asking for a refund within 15 minutes of delivery scan does sound like it they are trying it on.

Ebay should side with you on the case. Where there has been tracking showing a delivery scan I have had live chat close the INR and find in my favour.

[goingfishinguk]

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@21st_century_digital_empire wrote:

I do have duplicates but he's made it quite clear he'll only accept a refund in full at this point

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That is the bit that would set the alarm bells ringing for me.  Leave the case alone, the buyer will lose.  To me they have the item AND want their money back.

[ojewellery]

If you've taken reasonable steps thats all you can do.  I think we all have our own moral compass, I tend to give benefit of doubt whilst trying not to be a doormat.  A tiny percentage of customers are out to get what they can. Sounds like you may have stumbled upon one of those.

I don't get lots of not delivered/ wrong delivery items but I'd say 80% do actually turn up over a few days, by contacting royal mail, asking customer to double check, filling in the royal mail form. 

Being very reasonable, responding quickly, trying to de-escalate the situation and finding the buyer is still being difficult, its easier to just move on guilt free allowing the eBay automated systems to kick in.

[vintagechinashop]

Recently I've had two buyers report non delivery and when I checked tracking both showed as delivered a few days ago 

I don't routinely add tracking to eBay as I've had experience of tracking not updating and I've had late delivery marks even though the Royal Mail website shows delivery 

I emailed both buyers and gave a tracking number and miraculously both buyers were able to confirm receipt. It does make me wonder if there are buyers out there who don't see tracking and "try it on" to obtain a refund. Maybe that's my suspicious nature but I don't understand how you can report non delivery one minute but find it the next 

[susan03lucy]

Maybe ive become thick skinned since selling online but i would never refund just to keep the peace,

Thats usually what the buyer is hoping for, Unfortunatley.

I used to feel a bit rattled years ago but it didnt take long for me to always give a bit of a pushback,

Its surprising how peoples attitudes change when then know you will stick to your guns and follow Ebays policies.

Regarding the GPS coardinates. If not showing on the tracking you can always message the buyers delivery office, 

Ive had that happen quite a few times where no GPS on the tracking,

Sometimes ive been the buyer but everytime ive got a message to the delivery office manager and they (only the manager) can find out the coardinates.

if there is a delivery scan then there are coardinates.

It takes a couple of days but its never failed for me.

Although you dont really need it to win an INR case.

I hope it works out for you.

[ssmith0115]

To the OP,

What was the outcome in this case?

I posted on the same topic the other day as I'm in the same situation.

Item declared delivered but no GPS coordinates were uploaded to RM tracking.

eBay customer services agent said I will lose my case unless I obtain the GPS data. Have tried to do this but have been told by Royal Mail CS that GPS data is only stored on a postman's PDA device for 9 days.

Buyer opened the INR case 2 weeks after item was delivered so it's too late.

I've now discovered another 4 items delivered in recent weeks have not got any GPS data nor a picture of delivery.

This is becoming a real concern.

[4_bathrooms]

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@ssmith0115 wrote:

Have tried to do this but have been told by Royal Mail CS that GPS data is only stored on a postman's PDA device for 9 days.

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It sounds like you're being fobbed off. The PDA might only store it for 9 days but Royal Mail's own internal systems should store it for much longer as you can't claim for loss until 10 working days have passed. Assuming you didn't use a business account or stamps to pay for the postage ask Royal Mail for a denial of receipt form (they exist) then see if the GPS data magically appears...  

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@ssmith0115 wrote:

I've now discovered another 4 items delivered in recent weeks have not got any GPS data nor a picture of delivery.

This is becoming a real concern.

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What service are you using to send your items?

[ssmith0115]

Royal Mail customer services could not see any GPS data on their internal tracking system but there was a delivery image. I asked her if she could update the customer based tracking system with that image but she said she couldn't. I asked her if she could email me the image but she was unable to do that either, some rubbish about gdpr.

I have been to my local RM delivery office and the guy there has printed off this image from their system but it is a poor quality black and white image. I can just make out my white padded envelope but it shows nothing of any use that could prove the location. Even if it did there isn't the option to upload it to my INR case.

This item and my 4 others that are missing GPS data were all sent using RM Tracked 48 during January.

No problems in previous months with using that service though.

I think I'll just await the outcome of my INR case. If I win then I'll be relieved but annoyed at eBay CS for worrying me unnecessarily but if I lose then I'll put up another post warning other sellers to check that their packages have GPS data included with their "delivered" status.

If I lose I'll also be suggesting to eBay that they update their seller protection advice regarding GPS data rather than saying we're okay with a delivered or attempted delivery status.