Irate buyer claiming INR

[21st_century_digital_empire]

Hi all,

I've got a customer saying they haven't received their order despite RM scanning it as delivered.

They're getting quite angry about it and normally I'd refund to keep the peace, but it's a larger than average order.

I've instructed them to open an INR case which they have done, unfortunately, the RM scan didn't include GSP coordinates so I've contacted them to ask if it can be supplied.

Is there anything else I'm missing?

[4_bathrooms]

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@ssmith0115 wrote:

Royal Mail customer services could not see any GPS data on their internal tracking system but there was a delivery image. I asked her if she could update the customer based tracking system with that image but she said she couldn't. I asked her if she could email me the image but she was unable to do that either, some rubbish about gdpr.

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The GDPR reasoning for not providing the picture sounds like an excuse. Non-account Tracked 48 is supposed to provide a photo on delivery that can be viewed online. As you're the sender you already knew the recipient's name and address - well, you had to in order to send the item - so they wouldn't be disclosing any details you didn't already have.

However, it seems non-account Tracked services do not provide a GPS scan and map like account Tracked services do. I'd request the "denial of receipt" form mentioned earlier.

How did you purchase the postage? Did you purchase via eBay or directly from Royal Mail's website? 

[ssmith0115]

I have a Royal Mail personal account and bought the Tracked 48 postage with that using their app.

5 out of my last 21 delivered items that I've checked are missing the GPS data and image. Before that they're okay apart from 1 that has no image but that does have GPS location data.

[techtomic]

I had a similar issue a couple of weeks ago. Sale price was only £6 and item was sent 2nd class large letter but I wanted to test what would happen if it had been a high value item.

The buyer opened an INR case the day after the tracking showed item was delivered. He said he hadn't received it and that tracking didn't show a photo (it wouldn't, with it being 2nd class). So I called eBay to ask for advice. They said the case would go in my favour after 3 days as there was a tracking code, the address checked out, and it was marked delivered.

I gave a courteous reply to the buyer saying they could ask the postman and check the delivery office to see if there'd been an error. I think I triggered him though as I got a very angry reply saying I should have refunded him or sent a free replacement, and it was my problem.

Anyway the case closed, it closed in my favour, keeping the proceeds.

A couple of days later, the buyer appealed, and overturned this, and I was charged the original selling price of £6.

I contacted eBay and explained, and they were quite shocked by the buyer's attitude and couldn't work out how it had gone his way. Anyway they reversed the reversal, and I got the £6 refunded again. 

So presumably both of us ended up getting refunds.

[4_bathrooms]

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@ssmith0115 wrote:

I have a Royal Mail personal account and bought the Tracked 48 postage with that using their app.

5 out of my last 21 delivered items that I've checked are missing the GPS data and image. Before that they're okay apart from 1 that has no image but that does have GPS location data.

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There are two versions of Tracked 24 and Tracked 48; non-account is retail and is covered by it's own specific terms and conditions and account which means the postage was ordered via a business account. As you mention "personal" account I suspect you are subject to the non-account (retail) terms.

For items under £450 eBay requires "The recipient's address, showing at least the city/county or postcode" in the online tracking/delivery confirmation to "prove" delivery. I'd argue this point with eBay as it does not state a GPS scan of the delivery location is required as proof for such items and send them a link to their own policy.

Given the rubbish you've been given by Royal Mail I'm inclined to believe the buyer didn't receive their item. What was the value of the item and have you asked RM for a denial of receipt form yet?

[ssmith0115]

The value of the order is £30, not too much I know but I don't want this problem happening too many times.

I haven't phoned Royal Mail yet but can you advise me what should happen once I request a denial of receipt form.

Do they send it to the recipient for them to confirm non-receipt?

How long should this take as I'm expecting the buyer to ask eBay to step in today or tomorrow?

[4_bathrooms]

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@ssmith0115 wrote:

I haven't phoned Royal Mail yet but can you advise me what should happen once I request a denial of receipt form.

Do they send it to the recipient for them to confirm non-receipt?

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You will be sent the form or you might be provided with a link to complete it online. You may be asked to obtain a statement from the buyer (recipient); a screenshot of their last message in the eBay case might suffice as long as the message is dated the day after the delivery scan or later.  

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@ssmith0115 wrote:

How long should this take as I'm expecting the buyer to ask eBay to step in today or tomorrow?

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Have you uploaded the tracking number to the case? If you have that should prevent the case being automatically closed in the buyer's favour should they escalate.

[ssmith0115]

Royal Mail customer services are doing my head in.

Just been told now that the GPS delivery coordinates did not match the recipients address.

*bleep*, they told me 2 days ago that the GPS coordinates were no longer accessible as they were only kept on the system for 9 days following delivery.

He told me that I can now put in a lost parcel claim which I have read online is a waste of time as the parcel is already marked as delivered.

I'll go for that anyway.

When requesting the denial of receipt form, I was told by him that it doesn't exist.

You know it does and now I know it does as I've just found other discussions online that mention it.

I do appreciate your help though.

Can eBay or Royal Mail send me some more hoops to jump through?

[4_bathrooms]

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@ssmith0115 wrote:

Royal Mail customer services are doing my head in.

Just been told now that the GPS delivery coordinates did not match the recipients address.

*bleep*, they told me 2 days ago that the GPS coordinates were no longer accessible as they were only kept on the system for 9 days following delivery.

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I knew they were fobbing you off; the suggestion the GPS coordinates for delivery were only recorded on the postie's PDA was ridiculous. Anyway, now you know your buyer almost certainly did not receive their item.

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@ssmith0115 wrote:

He told me that I can now put in a lost parcel claim which I have read online is a waste of time as the parcel is already marked as delivered.

I'll go for that anyway.

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If you're claiming through Royal Mail you need to refund your buyer via the eBay case; you can't expect Royal Mail and eBay to compensate you. Is there a way to start a claim via the personal RM account you have? As RM have now confirmed the item wasn't scanned at the recipient's address they can't really refuse to pay out. You will need to take a screenshot of the refund issued via eBay as evidence of the loss you are claiming for.

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@ssmith0115 wrote:

When requesting the denial of receipt form, I was told by him that it doesn't exist.

You know it does and now I know it does as I've just found other discussions online that mention it.

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There is an online version available to (business) account customers. I won't link to it as that version doesn't apply to retail services and only allows a claim for "actual loss" (i.e. the cost price of the item; not what it sold for).
 

[bravergrace]

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@ssmith0115 wrote:

Can eBay or Royal Mail send me some more hoops to jump through?

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Yes, they can refuse to accept any claim unless you provide the buyer's e-mail address and phone number. 

Since eBay delete these from the sales record after a week or two, this means that (unless your system keeps a record of them), you may be unable to make a claim.  RM's excuse is that they need to be able to contact the buyer for verification that the item wasn't received.   The timeline means that many INR cases are ineligible for RM claims, unless the buyer opens an INR case at the earliest opportunity.  

[ssmith0115]

I don't have the buyers email address but I do have her home/delivery address and mobile phone number.

A buyers info seems to remain on orders for 90 days.

When I bought the RM Tracked 48 postage label I made sure that I added her mobile number so she'd receive text message updates on her package. I'm assuming she would have received a text saying her package had been delivered back on 24 January yet it took her 14 days to open an INR.

I'd have been foaming at the mouth immediately if royal mail were claiming to have delivered a package that wasn't there.

[4_bathrooms]

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@bravergrace wrote:

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@ssmith0115 wrote:

Can eBay or Royal Mail send me some more hoops to jump through?

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Yes, they can refuse to accept any claim unless you provide the buyer's e-mail address and phone number. 

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I'm not sure that applies to retail services. A business would be expected to obtain their customer's details during the sale and would be fobbed off with a refund of the postage only or cost (not sale) price of the item under "actual loss" compensation depending upon the service chosen and their account type.

@ssmith0115 has stated they have a "personal" account with Royal Mail; to me that indicates they have a consumer relationship with RM. That means they will be subject to RM's non-account specific terms for Tracked 24/Tracked 48 (clause 11) and would be on a much stronger footing. The poster might want to clarify which terms (account or non-account) apply.