Where did it all start?

[cee-dee]

Religion that is?

I was prompted to think of this by a post on the "artifacts" thread with a word that jumped out..... Satan.

Religions often seem connected with the sky, sensational natural events or "something up there" so did it all begin with Man thinking that things "up in the sky" or catastrophic events were controlled by some celestial beings?

Religions that have survived for some thousands of years seem to be somehow connected with vaguely similar beliefs. And then it starts to get complicated..............

Most know how The Serpent (Satan in disguise) tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden and the Forbidden Fruit but how about The Peacock Angel otherwise known as as Shaitan, or Satan?

God is supposed to have forbidden Adam to eat the Wheat but when The Peacock Angel visited Adam and asked him if he'd eaten the grain, Adam is supposed to have replied "No, God forbade me." The Peacock Angel is then supposed to have persuaded Adam to eat the grain which angered God.

Now The Peacock Angel was supposed to be the first of seven Archangels created by God but fell from favour because after telling the Archangels never to bow to any being, when God created Adam from dust (!!) and was told to bow to Adam, The Peacock Angel refused saying that God had already told him (he's male then?) not to bow to any being. God threw The Peacock Angel in to Hell where he remained for (this is where it gets a bit vague) variously 7,000 or 40,000 years after which time he either quenched the fires of Hell with his tears or filled seven jars with his tears with which he quenched the fires of Hell after which God forgave him and reinstated him.

Now what's all this got to do with Satan or the artifacts thread? Only that I mentioned Göbekli Tepe and that people who revere The Peacock Angel recognise some of the symbols found on some of the stones at Göbekli Tepe so have a think about that convoluted story eh?

[joamur_gosof]

If a school taught atheism then it would be an Athest school ..isn't that encouraging the same mindset thats so totally wrong with all religion ...religion should be banned from all children and religious teachers banned from being near anyone under 21.

[joamur_gosof]

footnote...as it is though they should include every religion ever mentioned and teach them all ...hence no one would learn anything at school except how confusing and nonsense preoccupation with religion is....then when the children have learned that and moved to primary school they can get on with their education 🙂

[******lynda******]

I don't suppose the schools would dare now, but in the very few years a teacher actually turned up at RI/ RE it was the headmaster who picked out stories from the bible and had us consider more scientific or logical reasons to explain them, rather than accept a miracle had happened.

[malacandran]

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@******lynda****** wrote:
I don't suppose the schools would dare now, but in the very few years a teacher actually turned up at RI/ RE it was the headmaster who picked out stories from the bible and had us consider more scientific or logical reasons to explain them, rather than accept a miracle had happened.

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This rings a bell, lynda.  When I was a kid in school, we had  "Divinity" lessons.  These were taught by a "Divinity" master. 

He presented supposedly "scientific" explanations of the miracles in the New Testament.

For example:

1. The Feeding of a Multitude by 5 Loaves and 2 Fishes.

 The Divinity Master explained,  that the multitude actually had ample food-supplies concealed in their clothing.  Which they brought out, when stimulated by the sight of the few fish/loaves. That's to say, the multitude were entirely self-supplied, and not nourished miraculously by an external heavenly source.

2. Jesus Walking on the Water

The Divinity Master explained,  that Jesus was actually walking on a concealed sand-bank, which lay just below the surface.

I must say these explanations greatly disturbed me.  Partly because of their implausability.  But more so, because they seemed to show a deliberate, or perhaps even unconscious, attempt by the Master, to undermine faith in the Bible.

Which seemed incongruous to his role as a teacher of Religion.  Why did he do it, do you think?

[******lynda******]

We had similar suggestions. I actually quite liked the idea that people might take something to eat, and then find a lot of others had done the same.
The water into wine was funny, raising Lazarus from the dead was another story for discussion.

I don't see why a religious education class couldn't encourage children to question the bible, or any other religious teaching. We never had the multi faith education they get now...odd that I have never felt the need to attack anyone because of their belief system that I know little about. My son went to school and was shocked to find he had to pray. The concept was unknown to him. He had never heard of God or Jesus or even church. Never occurred to me, living the way we did. The subject just never arose.

We were told that the bible should not be taken as Gospel ☺️ . It was written so long ago, often transcribed stories that had been passed down orally for perhaps many years by superstitious people who sought to explain the often inexplicable, and then translated several times, by people who might be guessing at some of the words, and who would be influenced by their own beliefs.
We didn't have a religious teacher. I think the headmaster just felt someone should turn up now and again, as in general we treated it as a free period. Many of us envied the RC pair, who, when he did deign to visit, were excused and really did have a free period.

[malacandran]

Lynda, your post makes so many excellent points. As your posts always do.

I think that until the 1960's, we British, and the West in general, had achieved an acceptable blend of Science and Religion.

The Christian Religion had evolved, over the centuries, to accomodate Science, even if reluctantly. The result was a civilised compromise.  Which led to a progressive and tolerant society. 

But since then, our society has been disrupted by a barbarous desert superstition. Which causes nothing but trouble to us.

Why has this happened?  I know why. Probably most of us do.  But none dare say!

[joamur_gosof]

where and why did desert superstion begin though,and how has ithat influenced so many over the centuries ?

[cee-dee]

Some reading for you all. Make sure you do read it all before making a comment?:-

http://islamqa.info/en/2532

[joamur_gosof]

I got ..if you mention allah (praise be to him) 

Toilet training for the shy and humble ,matters of a common decency and cleanliness and laws that are strict because if you don't do as your told with the mundane ..how will you ever do the right thing when faced with the important.

Not sure if that all explains where all these mixed laws and religions came from originally...unless back in 16000 BC someone pooped on someones foot by accident and laws needed to be added to civilized culture to stop this,compensation paid for a new pair of shoes and 50 lashes for the guilty for being clumsy of others..

[joamur_gosof]

ps ..that was hard work reading that ....imagine trying to become a doctor of science when all the teachings for everything in a day look like that....a giant kudos to muslims who become lawyers or doctors or science bachelors

[jd.linklater]

What an inspiring and enlightening read. I certainly won't be wiping my backside with bones or dung any longer and I'll make sure I wash my hands three times (or maybe even five times) before I go and cut someone's head off and post it on the internet.

[joamur_gosof]

confusing islam jihadi extreemist terrorists with muslims again I see JD 🙂

[jd.linklater]

Well everyone else does, I'm just trying to fit in

[joamur_gosof]

well it is easily done as both groups stem from the same prophets ...however it is a bit like saying nazi were democratic western facists ,which they were but not all were murdering homacidal extreemists....hence the many attempts by themselves to off the nutter calling for world ownership in its name.

[cee-dee]

Hmmmmm, it seems that rational debate within some of these religions isn't tolerated let alone considered?

From reading through many pages and books it seems to me that when writing began (in Sumer?) what was written down was a varied collection of very old "stories" about all sorts of things which became included (in many different versions) in the earliest written "scriptures". Over time they became distorted, misrepresented or twisted in various ways to become what we have today.

You can see the similarities if you read enough and if you're able to read with an open mind, not with a mind reading what you want to see or that which just happens to suit your way of thinking, the links to the ancient path begin to become clear.

I think it can be relied upon that something definite that was written actually happened but vague references (which are open to interpretation depending on your line of thinking) to something that was "supposed" to have happened need some definite corroboration as yet not forthcoming?

Now some of the ancient "prohecies" revolved around what was likely to happen. It's relatively easy to say that a certain tribe or oppresssor will be overthrown or defeated or that there will be some greatly destructive battle/war "one day" but it's a bit more difficult predict something definite.

With hindsight, many things can be "made to fit" an old prophecy but end days come and go. The only end day facing this Earth is when the Sun starts to die, expands and roasts the Earth to a crisp cinder.

[upthecreekyetagain]

The only end day facing this Earth is when the Sun starts to die, expands and roasts the Earth to a crisp cinder.

Says you, but the belief that that is what will happen is based purely on the trust you have in what the scientific community say will happen.  Maybe we need to allow a little scepticism in our total belief in what we are told. 🙂

[cee-dee]

I think they've based their views on what they have seen happening "out there."

Anyway, as far as prophecies go, quite a few theoretical predictions by the scientific community have subsequently be proved to be so, like the prediction of the existence of the Planet Neptune before it was actually found.

[tommy.irene]

http://www.ibtimes.com/lost-gospel-book-claims-jesus-christ-married-mary-magdalene-had-two-children-...

[electric*mayhem*band]

The sensible way to look at religion.

[al**bear]

"God" is an invention of early man's inability to grasp the phenomena occurring around him on a daily basis, he could not rationalise it, he could not explain it, and it frightened him.

Religions on the other hand, came about when, 'Wise' people realised it was the perfect weapon to control the populance