Where did it all start?

[cee-dee]

Religion that is?

I was prompted to think of this by a post on the "artifacts" thread with a word that jumped out..... Satan.

Religions often seem connected with the sky, sensational natural events or "something up there" so did it all begin with Man thinking that things "up in the sky" or catastrophic events were controlled by some celestial beings?

Religions that have survived for some thousands of years seem to be somehow connected with vaguely similar beliefs. And then it starts to get complicated..............

Most know how The Serpent (Satan in disguise) tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden and the Forbidden Fruit but how about The Peacock Angel otherwise known as as Shaitan, or Satan?

God is supposed to have forbidden Adam to eat the Wheat but when The Peacock Angel visited Adam and asked him if he'd eaten the grain, Adam is supposed to have replied "No, God forbade me." The Peacock Angel is then supposed to have persuaded Adam to eat the grain which angered God.

Now The Peacock Angel was supposed to be the first of seven Archangels created by God but fell from favour because after telling the Archangels never to bow to any being, when God created Adam from dust (!!) and was told to bow to Adam, The Peacock Angel refused saying that God had already told him (he's male then?) not to bow to any being. God threw The Peacock Angel in to Hell where he remained for (this is where it gets a bit vague) variously 7,000 or 40,000 years after which time he either quenched the fires of Hell with his tears or filled seven jars with his tears with which he quenched the fires of Hell after which God forgave him and reinstated him.

Now what's all this got to do with Satan or the artifacts thread? Only that I mentioned Göbekli Tepe and that people who revere The Peacock Angel recognise some of the symbols found on some of the stones at Göbekli Tepe so have a think about that convoluted story eh?

[upthecreekyetagain]

It must also be remembered that Muhammad recited the 'revelations' making up the Quran to his companions with instructions that they should memorise them.

There is uncertainty as to when these were committed to paper with many scholars suggesting that this could be as long as 100 years after Muhammad's death.

What appears to be beyond doubt is that Islam recognised 'good' Christians and Jews as 'People of the Book'

3-113 Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration

[electric*mayhem*band]

INTERLUDE.....

[cee-dee]

Some say that what he said was written on Palm leaves, stones, parchments and other things (I forget now). However, it seems there were collections of writings amongst people who knew him and were in many dialects. Eventually it was ordered that all the writings and memories were to be compiled in to one copy with all others burned.

It is said that one verse, 33:23 was found with only one man:-

'Among the Believers are men Who have been true to Their Covenant with Allah, Of them, some have fulfilled their obligations to Allah, And some of them are waiting"

So, argument will rage for ever as to whether everything he said was written down, how accurate it was and whether what was eventually written down as the one and only version had inclusions from others or had omissions both accidental and deliberate.

[joamur_gosof]

I do hope the last bit of that is wrong CD and arguments over it will not last forever as we will all pack it in with the my dad is better than yours and move on to something worthwhile, like making spaceships to leave when needed.(as a group)

[cee-dee]

Well.......... if you had a look at some of the places discussing the issues, the comments thereon would make you think that if it were only "the twain" that needed to meet, there was a possibility it could be resolved but there's umpteen different opinions surrounding the subject and the hostility is there to be seen.

If a simple translation of a verse can't be agreed upon what chance is there of agreement for the whole (over) 6,000 verses and they can't even agree on the total number.

[joamur_gosof]

Good links harry ,...pretty much agrees with whats been said on this thread in the main,it appears to be social engineering law and wealth coupled to the fact most people are born with a conscience to do the right thing...same brains same thoughts....so basically lets manipulate from that angle.

Today it's social engineering and media which has taken over the religious manipulating (just my opinion on how things look) but behind the scenes the most powerful are still the same crew trying to control everyone . It isnt such a bad idea mind to encourage people to do the rifgt thing by others andI think Gtreat Briton (and have done so for a while) is an experiment in world order ,hence all the cameras and mixing cultures.

The bad side for me is they dont just say it and stop all this ''you can vote you know that makes your in charge''  

Tony Blairs cabinet included members of opus dei ,I mean how religious can you get ,I thought wth and then a war and it all started to stink a bit....

would be nice if all followers of beliefs would say we all agree to live in peace and will not accept war onto others unless they war unto us ...or summat like that...bottom line is no dude or dudette in a pinstripe suit can make decisions like that on behalf of the populace...referendum only please 🙂

[joamur_gosof]

footnote ..or  in any attire 

[astrologica]

On our Welsh evening news the other day, there was an item where some non-Muslim schoolchildren were taken to a Mosque , to show them what happens there and give them some understanding of the Muslim faith. This is excellent, but it did set me thinking......are Muslim Schoolchildren ever taken to places of worship of other Faiths, to show them what happens there, and to give them an understanding of those Faiths. Just wondering......

[malacandran]

You're not "wondering" really - you know the answer.  We all do, but daren't say it.

[cee-dee]

Interesting question.

However, here's another few to ponder?:-

Now then, I don't think believers in their god(s) have ever asked themselves these questions.

Now this supreme being they believe in created everything right? All the stars, all the Planets known and yet to be found? There's between 100 billion and 400 billion stars in our galaxy alone and and estimates of the number of galaxies range from 100 billion to 500 billion. That's an awful lot of stuff to be created by any stretch of the imagination?

Now if this supreme being managed to do all that, why has he (it's always male?) not simply implanted his will in the beings he is also supposed to have created? Why has he found the need to just give his "word" to a few of the "intelligent" beings for them to do his work?

Is he just having a bit of fun, giving a bit of info out now and again to see what they'll do with it? Why has he felt the need to stir up some of them to the point where they want to kill off many others? A being capable of creating the Universe as we know it would have created everything in harmony? No? Or has he created something which has got out of control? The stars will gradually die, some going out with an enormous bang and from the debris other stars will form. Why bother? Why not just create a perfect "system" which maintains the status quo?

No supreme being capable of Universe creation would have a few "chosen" messengers amongst his "intelligent" beings, he'd have implanted his message in all his created beings. If he'd done that, wouldn't the created beings have been intelligent enough not to listen to mumbo jumbo?

[malacandran]

cee-dee, these statistics that you cite, about 100 billion stars in our galaxy, are impressively accurate.

Especially coming from a woman, who ought to be cooking for her man.

I personally think that all Religion is pre-Scientific gibberish, and even women can contribute to Science.

[upthecreekyetagain]

---

@malacandran wrote:

You're not "wondering" really - you know the answer.  We all do, but daren't say it.

---

And what is that answer?

This school seems to have the right idea

"We've taken our children into church - Muslims as well - but we don't do it every week - if we did there might be a problem. If you keep it to once or twice a year at particular times like just before Christmas then that time is acceptable to Muslims because they're coming to celebrate or have a service with Christians, the same as when we have an Eid celebration at school the Christian children join in and the Christian parents come. "

http://www.cofe-worcester.org.uk/children-youth-education/schools-and-education/religious-education-...

[joe_bloggs*]

Obviously Google hasn't reached Wales yet

[malacandran]

Thanks creeky, I started to read the link you gave, but it was so horrible, that I stopped.

Is this what we've come to?  

Feckin Yuckh!

[joamur_gosof]

I can tell you a harrowing story ,but I wont as its personal and in the middleish..... religious folk got involved ..they meant no harm whatsoever only to help but it was all ''do you understand gods words now children'' ...such a shame such well wanting human beings do not drop the god bit and just run the world...it would be a whole lot better place.

[cee-dee]

It's never ending isn't it? I wonder what the established religions make of this:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33476886

[joamur_gosof]

so a better question might be 'when will it all end ?

Sentenced to death and imprisoned most of his life for saying africans should rule africa not belgium settlers....hmmmmm  history is blurring into zone warps 🙂

[astrologica]

Oh yes Joe....we do have Google in Wales....does that surprise you? But unfortunately some of us don't have the time for endless Googling. Some of us have responsibilities.....and real lives!😄😄

[astrologica]

Thank God for Atheism...😄😄......that's another thought...do they teach Atheism to children in schools? If not, why not?

[cee-dee]

They wouldn't dare?

Would any school dare speak about never mind teach a logical look at all the religious teachings down the ages?

I wonder if any school would dare suggest even a discussion along the lines of this post?:-

http://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/The-Round-Table/Where-did-it-all-start/m-p/4314381#M159254