Welcome to the Great British Underclass

[fallen-archie]

I was chatting to a young lady who recently completed her teacher training and this week was inducted into the new Primary School where she will commence her chosen career. The school is multi cultural and located in West Yorkshire, it is a deprived area but by no means as bad as some inner city areas. Despite this around 90% of the childrens parents are welfare dependent. Most of the children have been labelled as having some kind of lerning difficulty reading standards among eight year olds is expremely poor.

The young Teacher who comes from a middle class background with a strong work ethic is the only member of the family not to be following a medical career, she has always wanted to Teach and help young children.

So what was her verdict following the three days?

The majority of pupils appear to have no respect for authority in any form, Gentle persuasion is the order of the day and the children respond with a tirade of abuse and colourful language.Attempts to impose discipline inevitably result in a family visitation where the source of the colourful language is confirmed. The Head Teacher in conjunction with police and the education authority has introduced a code of conduct and special measures to protect staff from irate and often hostile guardians. What is clear is the children are being raised in a manner likely to confine them to state dependence in one form or another and deprive them of the opportunity to escape poverty. 

We have a young, committed new teacher, keen to get on, with talent and the drive to succeed faced with the uncertainty of a career dealing with feral kids and their often broken families who challenge her ability not by interlect but by threat of physical abuse. The Only beneficiary of this sad situation is Jeremy Kyle. 

Why is it that despite having a welfare state designed to ease poverty and an education system which is free to all we end up with an Underclass seemingly incapable or unwilling to grasp the nettle break away and get on? 

Will this new teacher tough it out or simply follow many others and seek an alternative career? 

[joamur_gosof]

No I don't believe being a teacher is about salary and money...I know it is...if teachers were volunteers as I also said before then of course that's different ,so therefore if the teaching is a broken ie unruly kids ,then the teachers on pay for not letting that happen are responsible to correct that...hence they are the first that need to make the movement they want to see,then get the backing of the parents.

Now I work so therefore I get paid ,I am responsible if my work ruins the rest of the day for others am I not....if I then say ''well the others who sent me the work did not do it properly so its not my fault or up to me ...or if the boss is to blame and I am scapegoat fot a tyrant...both these are my responsibility to address.

Add now other human beings and their children going through all the things growing up throws at you and you have a very difficult job on your hands ..You say thats what you and teachers want ..well great I am 1000 percent behind you..please do make a difference ..........you most certainly do not need a wage to travel the world on ,but you should get one if all the kids are polite well mannered and self valuing positive members of society ..if they are not ,well you tell me .I would have been happy to sit with all my kids every minute they were taken from me to ensure they behaved as I ask them to ,and I would also shield them and complain or remove myself and child from a place that wasn't like that....but I live in this country so I am in do as I am told as well.....I had children and packed them off to school in the belief my kids would be sheltered as they are at home.....I am not going to say what happened but I am saying ,its a broken and teachers must take a responsibility to that if the broke bit is disrespectful foul mouthed to others.

[cee-dee]

No it doesn't, you're answering questions that were not asked.

Answer the question, if your pay was doubled, what difference would it make to your teaching?

[joamur_gosof]

teaching skills CD 🙂

[cee-dee]

Mine or yours?

[Anonymous]

Hello

I have answered your question !!

Not a lot of difference as what make you think that if I was getting double my salary I would then become a better teacher ??

I was a great & open minded & supportive so do you think that if again I was getting double the salary as a teacher I would become a Super Teacher " = no

I would still strive to teach to the best of my abilities/challenge what is not good for me as a teacher thus not good for my students either  whether getting double salary or not & enthuse my students with a passion for learning & striving for the best of their abilities &

Hope this time this answers your query

[joamur_gosof]

niether ,just on the end of your sentence 😄 

I would go with yours for intersting debate topics though 

[joamur_gosof]

Where would you change things then gorilla ?

[upthecreekyetagain]

---

@cee-dee wrote:

No it doesn't, you're answering questions that were not asked.

Answer the question, if your pay was doubled, what difference would it make to your teaching?

---

It may not make a great deal of difference to those who are already teachers - what it most certainly would do is attract more people into the profession allowing employers to be more selective in those chosen to become teachers, increase the number of teachers resulting in the lowering of class numbers and demonstrate society's level of respect for one of the most important of jobs - educating our children.

[joamur_gosof]

well said creeky,

and its up to the teachers and parents now to stand up isnt it and say this is what we want for our kids...I know its a massive concern for all involved as look at Bliars election win ..it was a wipe out accross the whole island ...why ?  well Education education education....I firmly believe that what we are all discussing here is what he promised the gov would do by spending on that system as a priority. Not what he did and wasted on pfficial figure collecting watchdogs .who truth be told have not actually been worth a penny of the countries money.

I get the impression you are a /or one of your family is a teacher..is that right and if so what are thiers or yours main problem they see...is it bad parents in the teachers eyes as a whole reason or is it perfectly fine on the whole ?

[Anonymous]

Hello

• Smaller classes that is for sure = 20/25 students rather than 30/35

• More power to Assistant Teachers as they are after all the one that support kids with educational/behavioural problems thus having a better knowledge as they are also Parents working with these kids thus with a welath of knowledge that at times is disregarded because they are not " qualified as teachers "

• A "better approach" as to setting up small meetings with children with let say similar problems to unable teachers to be able to adjust lessons plans to truly cater for them
• Meetings on a regular basis with Parents to create a platform were parents are also 100% involved in the educational development of their child ( if possible as we all know parents are also working to put food on the table )
• Teachers that indeed are Native speakers in the classes that teaches Modern Foreign Languages

Perhaps listening to the kids once in while as to why they are not or do not feel engaged in the lessons thus creating problems in the class

Kids to be screened at an early age to find out if indeed they are struggling with reading/listening/attention deficit & implementing ways that will work for these kids to benefit whilst in class thus preventing them of being disruptive perhaps ?!

There are so many ways to improve the quality of teaching & the quality time kids have when in schools that is for sure & I am sure that most of us would indeed offer advice or ideas for all to benefit & make teaching great & kids wanting to learn = all of them that is

Finally I do not have the answers to this big problem & can only use my experiences as a teacher teaching in a variety of schools & making observations as to what my experiences in these schools were

Hope this helps

[cee-dee]

No you've not. You're using the technique of distraction. As you obviously don't understand the question or failing that, how to answer a question directly, what chance have the kids got if they're not being taught how to answer a straightforward question?

[fallen-archie]

Politicians get by all the time doing that, even Tory ones.
Meanwhile remuneration and position in society does influence people and Teachers are no different.
What prohibits good teaching further is not only the behaviour of parents from the Jeremey Kyle school of thought but also those who feel so intellectually superior that they and they alone know how and why things go wrong. Intellect is no substitute for common sense.

[cee-dee]

You proved that some years back?

[fallen-archie]

Has it really been that long? omg there was me thinking you were the new kid on the block. 

I met again today with the young lady mentioned in the OP, she has the determination to carry on and I admire her for that. Is she motivated by money? No. Will she last? I some how doubt it, I think she will return to Uni and do something associated with child psychology. 

We can all criticise teachers when things don't meet our expectations, inevitably calls will be made to return to the good old day's of segregated education because it did serve some of us well. Ultimately education is about progression and survival everyone has a strength and the day that schools are allowed to develop those strengths is the day progress will be made. Parents who are products of the current system are testimony to all that is wrong they are failures, depriving there offspring of an education and of opportunity. 

[Anonymous]

I personally like the sound of all that.

So now is the question...............How do we get the government to do something about all this? Do we set up a large scale petition for changes country wide together with parents and teachers? What could be done to force such changes?

[joamur_gosof]

Write to the mps is good and set up petions with the teachers imput...Its all you can do...but all will be lost in the pre occupation of everything else ,like footballers wages ,isis terrorist ,what obama said to oprah or other important stuff like gossiping .

[fallen-archie]

It's about progress H, there is merit in traditional thinking however it does not suit everyone, once people accept that sport or hospitality are serious career options then perhaps they will wake up to allowing people to express themselves. CD has listed a number of ridiculously named courses some of the new breed of higher education establishments offer. Such courses give little if any hope to students and do nothing to further the cause of new, none academic vocations. We need to bridge that gap and remove the snobbery traditionalists display. In my experience the highest achievers are those who develop natural talent and the worst are those coached to success and presented with a job for life protected by their professional body yet in reality being poor value for money and generally dull.

Dentists come to mind. 

[Anonymous]

Hello

I have responded to the question & do not have time to & I quote " You're using the technique of distraction" = simple

As you obviously don't understand the question or failing that, how to answer a question directly,

I have & indeed understood the question thank you very much & again responded to it as best as I could

This is not a conspiracy were I am playing games or as English being my 4th language unable to comprehend the meaning of the question in front of me or as you put it so clearly not knowing how to answer the question

As I already said I do not care if my salary was twofold as I loved & will always love teaching & working with kids of different ages

So if your pay was doubled, = I do not care if it was 3 times as much   what difference would it make to your teaching? = no difference at all as I love teaching & will do everything in my power using my knowledge/experiences/ my joie de vivre & love for teaching to give it 100% = Not for sale for any price

Hope this finally helps

[electric*mayhem*band]

'Dentists come to mind'. 

Here's three more for your list, Archie.

To wit; Personal Trainers PE Teachers, Nail Technicians Manicurists, Hair Artists Hairdressers.

[joamur_gosof]

Did you say ''snobbery the traditionalists display '' ?