We are indeed "Better Together"..

[grandad-dave]

As I predicted it wasn't particularily Close..  All the scare stories around post costs can now be put to bed.. I must admit I sat looking at a blank TV screen this morning when i got up at 5.30am unable to switch on just in case the worst had happened and Soapy Salmond had indeed Crowned himself King!!..  Only time will heal the divisions but I'm so glad the majority voted to go forward with England, Wales and Ireland and hopefully build a better future and a stronger Union..   Is IT to late or to Early for a wee Dram to toast everyone from both sides>>>>>

[twohelmets]

Alright then, I promise not to find your comments funny or amusing in any way in the future.

That's fine, but I can't say the same for you. Far from ridicule my claim, your reaction to it merely proves I was right. You show clear distain and dislike for a particular group of people. You discriminate while telling us that my claim of discrimination is nonsense. That's funny!

[*.*..lola..*.*]

Privilege is wanting something for nothing, something the Scottish are very good at.

Are we? How embarrassing.....jings  

I'd be very interested in reading the source of that shameful claim. Do you have a link please?

PS Owning the complete series of Rab C Nesbitt on DVD doesn't count I'm afraid...soz  

[borismcdoris]

i think Rab has taught him EVERYTHING he "knows" about Scotland. we have our privileged classes too you know. the sad thing about, not only British society but society as whole, is the disenfranchised have no voice. the privileged have everything. a rich thicko needs only a degree in art history (or failing that geography) to land an overpaid job in the city. an intelligent articulate poor person would need a first class honours degree in economics, elocution lessons, a brass neck, and an indomitable spirit just to be able to shine the thickos' shoes.

_____________________________+_____________________________ 

[baybizz]

As I feared, the referendum 'cure' looks set to prove worse than the original simmering malady - the Pandora's box should never have been opened:

>> Cameron faces backbench pressure over 'English votes for English laws' following Scottish referendum vow. He will try to placate Conservative MPs, who are threatening to scupper further devolution for Scotland...

www.independent.co.uk/scotland-cameron-faces-backbench-mps-pressure-9747266

Something which seemed to elude the commentators in the excitement over the three leader's vows: the three party leaders can make all the promises and 'vows' they want to Scotland - but they are all at the mercy of the 650 odd MPs in Parliament, who are in turn at the mercy of their (mostly) English constituents. They have the last say - not the heads of Government and political parties. See here for a recent example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTObCecPFgE&t=5s

[bookhunter2007]

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@baybizz wrote:

 the Pandora's box should never have been opened:

---

I think Scottish Independence is inevitable. Yes may have lost the vote this time, but I don't think it will be the case in 15-20 years:

[papko]

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@m1llsyno1 wrote:

What I cannot understand is why the No's are so bitter even though they won.

 Its no time for gloating , its a time for magnanimity , though talking to the courier drivers who come round , a common theme

was the "smug smile of Alex Salmond " and not being able to stand it , especially after his pre ordained victory

Here's another point of fact. English folks living here in Scotland were allowed to vote. Scottish folks living in England could not.

its self determination , so those living in the country have the vote , the same elctorate as Scottish elections , (as opposed to GE ) 

 Polish immigrants could vote YES , as could my next door neighbours who are Americans on a 3 year visit /Study .

Its the way it goes 

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[papko]

---

---

She only has to be half right to bring up a shocking statistic. Scotland is a a high state dependency society, fact. It does not surprise me to see Glasgow in the YES camp. Unemployed voting for more. Yes, I truly believe that middle class white England is now a oppressed part of the UK. Heck, they have been virtually demonised in their "oppression" of Scotland, Northern Ireland and good old Wales. Except all these regions seem to benefit from England.

I would suggest an England independence campaign except I would of course be accused of being an anti social racist if I suggested England would be better off without "the regions". Only works one way, so it seems. Many would have been happy to see Scotland commit suicide. Me? No. But it would have been interesting to see the capitol flight from Scotland and how Alex reacted to it.

Perhaps he would just say it would not happen, because that seems to be his style. We WILL use the Pound, people will NOT take their money elsewhere, the banks will NOT move base, the EU WILL give us membership etc etc. On a personal level. If I had money in a Scottish bank, it would now be long gone.

Your socialist paradise, comrade, will come at a price. One you can't pay.

---

 In fairness the WHOLE uk is subsidised , its called the "deficit "

 And it s currently at least 10% overspend of what is raised in tax 

 Scotland does have a large public sector , (by a few % points ) , a higher old people demographic , (people return to retire ) , and a fair whack of state dependents (about UK average though ) 

 If Scotland is a basket case the whole of the Uk is ???????? 

Economic powerhouse ?

 On the plus side for Scotland , Oil and Gas ,Whisky , Fishing , Farming , all profitable and contribute loads to the balance of payments 

 The great irony of this the 2014 , is that that SNP were rejected in their heartlands , Moray , Banff , Aberdeenshire , all the people who resent paying so much tax and duty to Lonodn , and dont even have a motorway to show for it , 

 They vote SNP and have doen for years , , but when push came to shove , they voted against Indy , by 6-4 

[al**bear]

Bookhumter

Most of those surveys on the demographics of voting by Scots voters, are complete and utter nonsense - The Scots are past masters at telling pollster's 'porky pies' it has been a National pastime for years. Pollsters and surveyors hate the Scots, because Scots like to keep their own council or tell them untruth's.

Also a lot of these figures come from Lord Ashcrofts polling company (no idea if your graph does) - the number of People they asked were negligible - for Teens views they asked only 14 voters

He had teens voting exclusively YES, while others had it split 50/50, another 'reliable-ish polster' actually found by their figures that the 24 to 35 year olds voted 60/40 NO

[al**bear]

One of the biggest excuses by the NATS is that OAPs voted NO, because they were scared for their Pensions, they say this without a shred of truth. I found Older people just as diverse in their voting plans as others

The NATs have to blame the 'FEAR FACTOR' because they can't blame their own own campaign, that was devoid of Real facts and figures

as i've said elsewehere

'YES Scotland' was mostly Bluff, Bluster & Baloney

Voters are not all stupid and loads saw through this

[bookhunter2007]

---

@al**bear wrote:

Bookhumter

Most of those surveys on the demographics of voting by Scots voters, are complete and utter nonsense - The Scots are past masters at telling pollster's 'porky pies' it has been a National pastime for years. Pollsters and surveyors hate the Scots, because Scots like to keep their own council or tell them untruth's.

Also a lot of these figures come from Lord Ashcrofts polling company (no idea if your graph does) - the number of People they asked were negligible - for Teens views they asked only 14 voters

He had teens voting exclusively YES, while others had it split 50/50, another 'reliable-ish polster' actually found by their figures that the 24 to 35 year olds voted 60/40 NO

---

Yes, the graph is from an Ashcroft poll - yeah I know, Tory funder, tax dodger etc etc. However, I do find his political analysis is often not far off the mark. Ideally, the more polls there are from other sources to triangulate, the less chance of bias. Do you have links to the other polls?

I would have expected the older vote to lean towards "no", mainly down to older people being more adverse to *change*.

To be fair, I don't think either side particularly covered themselves in glory.  Although whilst sympathising with the "yes" camp in wanting to tell the Tories to "get tae fook" permanently, I was hoping for a "no", but the manner in which it was "won" felt like winning a football match scoring a last minute goal via a handball.  When Cameron started pressuring big business to play the "WE'LL MOVE" card, it reminded me of the banks throwing their toys out of the pram back in 08/09 when threatened with tougher regulation, higher taxes, and clampdowns on bonuses.

As for some folks referring to the SNP as the "Nasty Nats", I think that's a tad unfair. Earlier in this thread, someone said: "One last thing to the nasty nats.............  GIVE ME MY FLAG BACK !!!"   Well, they got their wish:

https://vine.co/v/OWPzrhni0Aj

Thus, I think it's fair to say "Nasty Nats" could quite easily apply to the likes of the SDL types too.

[twohelmets]

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@bookhunter2007 wrote:

---

@baybizz wrote:

 the Pandora's box should never have been opened:

---

I think Scottish Independence is inevitable. Yes may have lost the vote this time, but I don't think it will be the case in 15-20 years:

---

So, 71 percent of 16 and 17 year old kids voted "for Scotland".

Allowing 16 year old kids to vote vote under the guise of "they know what they are doing" was possibly the most cynical move made by our dear old Alex. He knew full well that most would simply vote "for Scotland" without even nearly understanding the consequences.

His subsequent claims that the high turn out among that age group meant we are all wrong to keep them out in the first place because they have demonstrated great wisdom actually made me angry, not something that politicians can often do to me.

[bookhunter2007]

---

@twohelmets wrote:

---

@bookhunter2007 wrote:

---

@baybizz wrote:

 the Pandora's box should never have been opened:

---

I think Scottish Independence is inevitable. Yes may have lost the vote this time, but I don't think it will be the case in 15-20 years:

---

So, 71 percent of 16 and 17 year old kids voted "for Scotland".

Allowing 16 year old kids to vote vote under the guise of "they know what they are doing" was possibly the most cynical move made by our dear old Alex. He knew full well that most would simply vote "for Scotland" without even nearly understanding the consequences.

His subsequent claims that the high turn out among that age group meant we are all wrong to keep them out in the first place because they have demonstrated great wisdom actually made me angry, not something that politicians can often do to me.

---

Of course "dear old Alex" is going to push for 16 & 17 year olds to vote if the SNP have calculated that's where a significant amount of support is going to come from.  My point being those 16/17 year olds will be 30 year olds at some point. What will change their views in that window?

[evoman3957]

Hopefully, they'll grow up and learn a bit about the World...........hopefully the more subtle aspects of Human manipulation and deviousness. Then instead of all being 16/17, with the perceived knowledge of a 160 Year Old; they will have ceased running Home to Mummy / Daddy / or both, to be Bailed out / sorted out / straightened out...........or just booked into rehab.

[bookhunter2007]

I've been looking around at some other polls, and you're right Al - The polls for 16-17 year olds are all over the place:

http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/scots-independence/60453/the-no-kids-has-alex-salmond-fatally-misj...

However, the Nos for the over 65s seem alot more stable across the polls - Lowest I found was 61%. So it does still seem the case 'No' does rely heavily on the grey vote, which is a worry for the future. Fortunately, women tend to be more 'no' too, which helps buy time.

[fallen-archie]

For all the science applied in the polls it is worth noting that the Bookies were not influenced and remained fairly static for a no win throughout.
Those who now promote themselves as the 45 are a desperate group allied to break the union but each has its own agenda which if promoted would lead to little support for any of them.

[al**bear]

The YES side won only ONE age group * 25 to 39

btw one of the Top official YES voting adjudicators has also come out and rubbished ALL the 'voting fraud' allegations

[twohelmets]

One thing I am sure of.....

Alex did not take the unprecedented step of allowing 16 years old kids to vote because it was the right thing to do, and he most certainly did not do it because he thought they would vote no. If he believed they were more likely to vote no then the idea of allowing them to vote at all would never have been aired.

I believe he was told they would be more likely to vote yes and increase the chances of him achieving his political aims and allowing them to vote was an entirely calculated electoral play. No matter what any poll tells me, I believe they would indeed be more likely to vote "for Scotland"  and for several reasons, not least not even being able to imagine a World ten years down the line, let alone forty plus years.

As one poster has pointed out, in their current World all problems are solved by running back to Mum.

Of course, that's all sweeping generalisation. I am sure there would be 16 year old kids saw beyond the largely empty nationalistic bluster of the yes campaign and had genuine worries about the financial future of the country and indeed their own in a decades time, but not many.

[al**bear]

Saw some great 16/17yos interviewed by TV chammels, but most of the teens who filled the streets waving flags and placards for YES,  seemed to think it was a cross between the Scottish football teams Tartan Army and a Braveheart fan Club.