The Final Frontier

[cee-dee]

Space. There's  lot of it and that's only what we can see (so far).

These scientific types say they're seeing "so far back in time" (to the beginning of the universe?) that I wonder if some things have really been thought through?

We (OK, the scientific types) can see billions of Galaxies and trillions of stars and they're looking for Earth-like planets but ain't definitely found one yet. Yes, they've found some in the Goldilocks-zone near stars but they've also found some really strange Planets along with some Hellish places too.

Along with those, they've found some orphan Planets wandering through space which they conclude "must" have been flung out of their Solar system, possibly by a sling-shot from a large Planet in the same system but they don't have much to say about the fact that "an object, when propelled by a force will continue in the direction of that force until acted upon by another force." Simply put, if that orphan Planet was flung out, it must still be travelling the same speed as when it was flung out. Where's it going? Any heading our way?

There's other people maintaining a listening watch in case there's a radio signal coming from "somewhere out there". Well, if it's "come a long way", it'll have taken a long time to get here and the place from whence it came may no longer be there so there's no point in replying?

They're looking for life like us? Well, on the balance of probabilities given the number of stars we know about, there should be life "out there" but why should it be like us? We've found weird life on this planet in weird places so life "out there" could be "weird" (to us) too? Thing is, we'd appear to be weird to them too?

[joamur_gosof]

lucky guess ?

[cee-dee]

Just looking at a relatively recent wooden ship, The Victory, it was supposed to have taken 6,000 trees to construct it and it was around 200 feet long and 50 feet wide.

How many of the Worlds species could you cram in to that? What would you feed them on for six weeks?

The Victory was built in a Naval Dockyard with an army of skilled workers of many trades and the actual building of it took 3 years. How would a bloke called Noah have cut 6,000 trees down, cut them in to sections suitable for ship-building to construct a ship like The Victory never mind something the size needed to contain 2 of all species?

The whole idea of the ark is without any sensible consideration of the practicalities of building such a ship never mind how it might be launched without damage or how it might be brought safely to rest when the water is supposed to have receeded and anyway, where did the water go?

[bankhaunter]

Flood stories from different parts of the world are not surprising, it would be unusual if there weren't any.

Man doesn't understand the forces of nature so puts them down to various gods/beings more powerful than them who are the cause, apart from volcanic activity and earthquakes, floods are probably the most destructive things man experienced, one would show the gods were really angry and be worthy of a story.

At the time the Noah story was written the writer wouldn't know that a wooden boat that size would break up in any sort of sea, they didn't know just how vast the number of animals would have to be and neither would their audience when the story was first told, practical details don't matter in such stories.

[joamur_gosof]

Too true bank 🙂  but a good story into the way things were back then..ie the thought of a saving person for all species in the face of a massive catastrophe and one of each is as good a way to get the whole thing rolling again, understanding I think more about basic human willingness to keep the whole thing together.than we do today. (on the whole)

The rest of the twaddle (hand picked ,punishment etc) well...utter nonsense but hey everyone loves a good drama 🙂

It may end up being repeated but a spaceship version and I wonder if the far off future readers will think ..'as if 'same as we do 

[joamur_gosof]

After thought again

Thats the thing as well about ancient tales ..it seems as though they were writing about now rather than then (or things havent really changed at all very much)...its all very strange,and another odd thing is they were very big on prophets ( readers of the future, story tellers) 

I should stop reading lol  

[joamur_gosof]

Hers an old fable that may be a future telling prophecy..

The ascension...loads of gods worthy (the rich) rise up to the heavens (spacestations to live a while) whilst armageddon hits the rest of the world (us ,culled nuked to reastablish the money game thats well and truly about to be exposed for the pretence it is)...ie no there isnt one guy with 6000,00000 quid in the top 500 rich list ,hello magazine makes that up for readers ,as its quite impossible to make that amount of notes out of some gold and diamonds.

Experiment A on space stations and more are about to go up is how to spend long time in space medically well....plus of course the pictures drawn and tale of a large star appearing in the sky is now true as the spacestations do looks very twinkly at night.

[cee-dee]

Going back to Space again...............

The Big Bang happened......... where was it? It would be a sort of centre, "in the middle"?

So the big Bang goes off and "stuff" goes out in all directions so where is "the middle"? If it's "gone out" in all directions, what's left where the Big Bang went off? Is there nothing there?

"They" say the Universe "expanded", like a balloon? Well, "they" say they're looking for light from way back when but if we can see light from "way back", how did we get "so far out"?

"They" say that nothing can travel faster than light? So if we're "out here", how did we get here so fast that we're able to look back at light which "happened" long ago?

Now I'm not a scientist, a physicist, a mathematician or an astronomer but for many years I've been saying that I reckoned that there may be other universes "way out there" but guess what? After the latest outpourings from the Planck, someone has actually said that we may be part of a Multiverse....... ie, that there may be many other universes.

We know (or think we know) that after Stars formed in our Universe that some burned out quite quickly leading to other Stars forming from the debris and when they burned out, more Stars formed from the debris and that's how the different elements (including us) were formed. "We are Stardust".......

OK, so is it that impossible that a Universe could be formed from the debris of another? Over the eons of time, does the same thing keep happening over and over again?

[upthecreekyetagain]

Isn't it the generally accepted theory that there is no centre of the universe from which everything is expanding but that the universe is expanding equally in all directions in all parts of the universe?

You're thinking of the big bang in terms of a conventional explosion, which it wasn't.  A conventional explosion occurs in a 'constant' time zone unlike the big bang.

[cee-dee]

We've been here before?

The thing is, whatever the Big Bang was, it happened someplace and "expanded" from there. Where?

I don't see how something can keep expanding from someplace without constantly generating more of the same or everything moving outwards leaving an empty space?

"They" seem to glibly trot out this "expanding balloon" malarky without explaining how it can happen. "They" say space is expanding in all directions at the same time but if Space itself went off with a Big Bang all at the same time, what caused it?

At the root of it all are the words "may", "could" and "theory". We have no way of knowing what lies beyond our observable "horizon". "They" say "For all we know, the Universe is infinite and that the cosmological theories are wrong".

"They" also say that if there's a centre beyond our observable horizon, there may be other centres in the same way that some time back we thought the centre of the Universe was the centre of our Galaxy, that is, until other Galaxies were observed.

[upthecreekyetagain]

---

@cee-dee wrote:

We've been here before?

The thing is, whatever the Big Bang was, it happened someplace and "expanded" from there. Where?

I don't see how something can keep expanding from someplace without constantly generating more of the same or everything moving outwards leaving an empty space?

"They" seem to glibly trot out this "expanding balloon" malarky without explaining how it can happen. "They" say space is expanding in all directions at the same time but if Space itself went off with a Big Bang all at the same time, what caused it?

At the root of it all are the words "may", "could" and "theory". We have no way of knowing what lies beyond our observable "horizon". "They" say "For all we know, the Universe is infinite and that the cosmological theories are wrong".

"They" also say that if there's a centre beyond our observable horizon, there may be other centres in the same way that some time back we thought the centre of the Universe was the centre of our Galaxy, that is, until other Galaxies were observed.

---

That's the whole point - the Big Bang didn't occur 'somewhere' - how could it? - there was no time, there was nowhere.

As soon as the Big Bang occurred time came into existence so the 'explosion' was everywhere.  That's why the radiation from the Big Bang which can be detected is coming at us from all directions.

[cee-dee]

"They" have not explained how "nothing", nowhere could go off with a Big Bang.

[joamur_gosof]

from some new theories I have been reading, there is a centre and its a giant black hole (think you mentioned it before cd) and it sucks in and throws up all the time hence each throw up gets larger throwing the whole universe out ..like blowing up a balloon 'suck in the balloon shrinks blow out the balloon grows ,in less than out equals .....

This center is what we all spin round and its main force of rotation is created wave arms and within those wave arms (that are impeneratble at hight A to B ) there is a  safe from force area (in the perfect circle zone) and thats where we are.

I assumed that jumping each arm and finding the safe spot of that zone we will find the same thing as we see here,but there is no life of course outside each safe zone of each arm wave.

What the black centre is spinning in is another matter all together...I picture a sink draining down a plug then spewing all back out and a bit more of the 'whatever'

[upthecreekyetagain]

Worth a read CD - a lecture by Steven Hawking

http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html

[cee-dee]

Well, I read it all and it's just a collection of things he's said before, lots of theory.

Now if the Universe is expanding like a balloon, eventually it'll get back to where it was at the start. He says a collapse?

What's always forgotten when mentioning the Universe, is that they forget to say that it's "The Universe as We Know It".

We don't know if the Big Bang has happened before or even how many Big Bangs there's been.

[upthecreekyetagain]

If Hawkings ideas are valid then that would suggest that there could well have been other Big Bangs but talking about them being in the past present or future is failing to understand the whole thesis behind a singularity - they don't exist in time.

If 'our' dimension of time came into being at the time of the Big Bang there is no reason why another singularity could not be the source of another Big Bang with a different dimension of time and totally different set of 'laws of physics'.

[cee-dee]

If another Big Bang went off in another part of the Multiverse right now, the time there might just begin but in our time it would be now.

Although we'll have no way of knowing, in all probability the Laws of Physics that we know and have proven here will be exactly the same after another Big Bang because it'll all be the same sort of stuff.

[joamur_gosof]

Not necessarily 'all the same sort of stuff'' cd ..Chemical reactions to a reaction vary wildly ,so nothing can be proved as fact until it happens. 

I still want to know how high and low the universe is..hawkins does touch on the subject in the link...anyone got anymore science/theories on height and depth of pls ?

[cee-dee]

It would be "the same stuff" because if another Big Bang went off in the Mulitiverse the stuff "at the beginning" would be the same. The different stuff comes after Stars have formed and died.

Distances over the Universe as we know it is measured in parsecs and we only "know" as far as we can see. A parsec is about 19 trillion miles.

[bankhaunter]

About 546,337,955,400.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 miles across.

I think.

[joamur_gosof]

thanks guys but has deep been measured (if there is one )

And no not necc same stuff as a reaction could create new stuff