The Final Frontier

[cee-dee]

Space. There's  lot of it and that's only what we can see (so far).

These scientific types say they're seeing "so far back in time" (to the beginning of the universe?) that I wonder if some things have really been thought through?

We (OK, the scientific types) can see billions of Galaxies and trillions of stars and they're looking for Earth-like planets but ain't definitely found one yet. Yes, they've found some in the Goldilocks-zone near stars but they've also found some really strange Planets along with some Hellish places too.

Along with those, they've found some orphan Planets wandering through space which they conclude "must" have been flung out of their Solar system, possibly by a sling-shot from a large Planet in the same system but they don't have much to say about the fact that "an object, when propelled by a force will continue in the direction of that force until acted upon by another force." Simply put, if that orphan Planet was flung out, it must still be travelling the same speed as when it was flung out. Where's it going? Any heading our way?

There's other people maintaining a listening watch in case there's a radio signal coming from "somewhere out there". Well, if it's "come a long way", it'll have taken a long time to get here and the place from whence it came may no longer be there so there's no point in replying?

They're looking for life like us? Well, on the balance of probabilities given the number of stars we know about, there should be life "out there" but why should it be like us? We've found weird life on this planet in weird places so life "out there" could be "weird" (to us) too? Thing is, we'd appear to be weird to them too?

[joamur_gosof]

so plants are here how..before water  pls ? I dont think for a min I am right by the way ,but nice to be corrected. I mean were they here and the oxygen they created ,made water happen thus causing themselves to evolve into a trillion species, one of them ( 1 ) able to be

on the brink of space travel .  

Again that makes the plants effort in the intelligent acheivement awards put us behind the dolphin 

[cee-dee]

You're not seeing the word abundant.

Going back further in time, some (plant) life developed in sulphurous conditions and that life gave off Oxygen.

The "plant life" wasn't trees and bushes, it was more like what we see today as algae.

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@cee-dee wrote:

You're not seeing the word abundant.

Going back further in time, some (plant) life developed in sulphurous conditions and that life gave off Oxygen.

The "plant life" wasn't trees and bushes, it was more like what we see today as algae.

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That however is simply a chemical reaction releasing the oxygen molecules that are already present in other molecules such as carbon dioxide.  Oxygen as an element  can only be created by nuclear fusion.

As stars use up their main fuel, hydrogen in a fusion reaction that creates mainly helium, they become denser and contract creating the conditions for heavier elements, including oxygen.  Eventually all the available material to enable a fusion reaction runs out and the star collapses then explodes in a supernova throwing out all the elements it has made in a giant gas cloud.

It is these clouds that coalesce to form planets, asteroids and comets.  Once a planet has formed then new or additional elements can only be added to its element bank via collisions with other objects.  It is the size and form of its orbit around its sun that then determines what compounds are formed from the elements available.

Whether the water on Earth cam from collisions with icy bodies such as comets or was formed by chemical reactions is still a matter of debate.

[cee-dee]

Absolutely right but as there was abundant Carbon Dioxide it was released by the life cycles of the various algae.

[joamur_gosof]

so it was this algae that evolved into a water letting ,oxygen/hydrogen inducing life form , thus creating an enviroment for multi mllia evolvey things ?

[joamur_gosof]

afterthought ...if that was the case (and I am not doubting it) I would expect not only life on many many planets the same as ours but think there is a strong possibility in our own system a few more could evelove as the sun temperature changes from place to place ,creating the perfect enviroment .

[upthecreekyetagain]

In all this discussion it has to be remembered that as a species our life can be measured in just hundreds of thousands of years compared to the age of the Earth around four and a half billion years.  In other words in our recognisable form as Homo Sapiens we have inhabited Earth for just 1/250,000th of the life of the Earth!  Who's to say how long we may survive and what other intelligent life forms may evolve at some time in the future - here on Earth, another planet, solar system or galaxy and even if it does the odds of such life being in reachable distance of us at the same time in our life cycle has to be incredibly small.

[joamur_gosof]

Well yes upthe creeky ,exactly..intelligence is how long a life form exists in real time

Do you think that its luck what happened here and only due to its vastness ,space has possibly other such cases...ie life as we know it ,or do you think all planets are just waiting time bombs and are springing up all over the place ..albeit too far away from each other to see at the mo.

[joamur_gosof]

I didnt put the first bit well...its not intelligence that stems from exist time ,more what evolves from that time and how it survives .

[cee-dee]

Very, very true.

Many "events" on Earth have lasted for millions of years and it'd be pure chance if we happened on another Planet at the same point in it's evolution as here.

It's highly likely (based on the balance of probabilities) that we'll find another Planet with all the "right" things for life but the chances of finding one at the "right time" is very small.

Even if we find the "right" sort of Star of the "right" age, we'll be very lucky to be able to tick all the other boxes for "intelligent" life.

However, for all we know, there's another life form somewhere going through the same list of check-boxes........

[joamur_gosof]

Is it not possible considering its vastness and age there is a large chance there are millions of already evolved planets (albeit at different stages) all over..the fact we are not able to travel or see where to travel yet ,brings us back to the question..if it is all possible (space travel) why hasn't an older race done it and found us . 

Knowing the evolve system of a planet up to this point would suggest they would only take over or wipe this version out anyway.

Or are we the most evolved of the small/large percent and its kind of up to us ..hence the evoloution of the thinker without thought.

[joamur_gosof]

this place must be deserted as on most forums by now God would have turned up to argue his/her point of view and teach us mere vessals that we are allowed free thought on gods playground,hence our stupidity on the subject.....well cd's and upthecreeky's anyhow 😄

[cee-dee]

Well now, putting it all in to some sort of perspective, our own Galaxy has between 100 and 400 billion stars (those scientific types can't make up their mind) and there are around a 100 billion Galaxies in the observable Universe so it's highly likely that somewhere there's a Planet with some intelligent life.

The thing is..... we don't know what lies beyond the observable Universe as the light from there hasn't had enough time to travel that vast distance so who else might be "out there" is open to a bit of imagination?

[joamur_gosof]

What about this one..on intelligent life on scale...An invisible thing decided a long time ago or short ,to evolve into a thing that could jail break it from its invisible home,with the prospect of a) dying out forever) b )living instead  in a floating bake bean tin, c) )colonizing the unknown invisible thing of the unknown. 

Now that really is intelligence as the planning that went into that is mind boggling.

[cee-dee]

The scientific types say that our Solar system was formed from the debris of the explosion of a Star in a Super Nova some billions of years ago. The Solar system doesn't just comprise our Star (the Sun) and the large Planets we know so well..... going further "out" there's also the Asteroid belt, the Kuiper Belt and the Oort Cloud......... and then........ there's the Comets......

Now, some maintain that during the Late Heavy Bombardment, Comets brought water to the Earth and some others claim that they also brought life or if not life, they brought the necessary chemicals for life.

Yes, I can see all that being possible but were not all the things just mentioned formed from the same Super Nova?

If so, that means that some water and some of the chemicals necessary for "life" to form were already here before any of the bombardment by Comets?

Some maintain that to create a form of life you need 1/ the chemicals, 2/ ultra-violelet radiation and 3/ pressure. All those would be created from an impact by a Comet. The Comet contained the chemicals, the Sun had provided the Ultra-Violet radiation and the pressure came when the Comet impacted the Earth.

The thing is..... others maintain the Earth is misplaced in the Solar system and claim that the Earth had, in the distant past suffered a mighty impact from another "body", a smaller Planet. The impact "moved" the Earth to it's present location (closer to the Sun), gave it it's tilt and rotation.

Dwelling with conjecture, that's possible and it's also possible that such a "body" could have brought a large amount of the water? It might have been a body which had a similar orbit to Comets and might even have been a gigantic Comet?

[joamur_gosof]

There was a program I watched about our birth and apparently Venus was made exactly the same time and out of exactly the same type of ..well whatever it is Earth is (broken comet ,bit of a supernova etc...the only reason Earth became habitable and Venus not was the water in the atmosphere due to the right temperature ie distance from the sun.

Their theory was a 2 giant planet collision and we 2 are the debrie so lots of ideas on where how a system could happen ,all know how it works in relation to each other ie orbit...but nobody that I have seen explains why we all stay up.Do you know ? 

I assume the sun is orbiting also ,something bigger obviously but whats that orbiting and so on...I am interested if anyone has heard how we all dont land on a floor or float upwards /outwards /sideway ? who knows ..I know we dont via sun orbit but whats keeping the sun from leaving for a better climate ?

on another note

Water exist in the chemical balance of a universe then so does evoloution life forms so it is very very odd there arnt lots of things bobbing around for inquisitive beings like ourselves to play with ..almost a comedy

[cee-dee]

It's gravity that holds things together. I'm not sure if I'm right in saying that any mass has gravity?

The Planets are orbiting the Sun at great speed and the centrifugal force is trying to make them to "fly off" but the gravity of the Sun is holding 'em back.

It seems that everything is rotating around one thing or another. "They" claim that in the centre of all Galaxies is a "Black hole" and all the Stars in the Galaxy are rotating around that. I suppose before long someone will come up with a theory that all the Galaxies are rotating around a super-super-massive Black hole at the centre of the Universe?

Anyway, we can all theorise?

How about I theorise that the "Big Bang" was only one of many which just hppened to be in "our" part of the Universe. It's caused by all the Black holes gradually swallowing Stars, Galaxies and everything within it's gravitational pull and eventually a critical point is reached where the immense pressure leads to intense heat before all the matter in the Black Hole explodes in a Big Bang and everything kicks off all over again?

[bankhaunter]

An iteresting discovery.

If stardust contains carbon and water, it means the essentials of life could be present in solar systems anywhere in the universe and raining down on their planets.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24907-water-found-in-stardust-suggests-life-is-universal.html#...

[cee-dee]

I thought we'd already established that the chemicals needed for life are likely to be found elsewhere in the Universe but if it was as simple as dust containing water and carbon "raining down" on Planets, there'd be life all over the place. eg, on the Moon or on Mars?

In the article from that link, they say that "In no way do we suggest that this was sufficient to form oceans."

It's the oceans of water that make our Planet what it is, = up to now, unique.

[joamur_gosof]

Also unique is the human race to the other animals of the unique planet ..which is where my personal chain of thoughts on this collide with are we all a micromebia intelligence thats been experimenting with planets and creature creations to create a life (host) it can colonize the universe with..hence the god is behind it theory .. in which  a super intelligence  as old as the universe itself and has a game plan has a hint of truth.

No I do not mean there is a god (aka GOD)   ,I am suggesting the basis of the story could be true to a big plan and as we discussed earlier, time is in a 'this is how long its taken to get this far in the colinization of the universe.

Leading nicely to we are all alone in this form........for now .