The Final Frontier

[cee-dee]

Space. There's  lot of it and that's only what we can see (so far).

These scientific types say they're seeing "so far back in time" (to the beginning of the universe?) that I wonder if some things have really been thought through?

We (OK, the scientific types) can see billions of Galaxies and trillions of stars and they're looking for Earth-like planets but ain't definitely found one yet. Yes, they've found some in the Goldilocks-zone near stars but they've also found some really strange Planets along with some Hellish places too.

Along with those, they've found some orphan Planets wandering through space which they conclude "must" have been flung out of their Solar system, possibly by a sling-shot from a large Planet in the same system but they don't have much to say about the fact that "an object, when propelled by a force will continue in the direction of that force until acted upon by another force." Simply put, if that orphan Planet was flung out, it must still be travelling the same speed as when it was flung out. Where's it going? Any heading our way?

There's other people maintaining a listening watch in case there's a radio signal coming from "somewhere out there". Well, if it's "come a long way", it'll have taken a long time to get here and the place from whence it came may no longer be there so there's no point in replying?

They're looking for life like us? Well, on the balance of probabilities given the number of stars we know about, there should be life "out there" but why should it be like us? We've found weird life on this planet in weird places so life "out there" could be "weird" (to us) too? Thing is, we'd appear to be weird to them too?

[joamur_gosof]

I would like to state infatically (whatever that means) I did not mention the G word to turn this topic into a fairy tale....just wondering if the story story is buried in the phycic of the real meaning of the whole what  is going on ,where are they all ,why ,how ,who,what,when ,where.

That means in plain english to the religious presuaded ..no there isnt an answer , but there is a question.

[bankhaunter]

You would have to have water already present, I was thinking more about the spread of life being universal where other conditions were such that some form of life could appear.

The main bulk of water probably came from icy asteroids and comets bombarding the Earth in the early stages of the Solar System and added to by water gathered from the early solar nebula.

Jupiter's moons also carry much water, Europa is thought to hold as much as the Earth in a 100 kilometre thick layer on a rocky base.

[joamur_gosof]

If some form of life can appear in certain conditions within the universe ,surly then with our capable eye we would have seen something ? It seems to me that we are a unique accident and the chance of it ever happening again (and heres the key) 'without our involvement ' is probably nil on the scale of things.

[joamur_gosof]

after thought.... unless of course we were involved in this as well ..think circles.

[cee-dee]

Yes, but the thing is why and how did the Earth get and keep so much water?

It's logical that there would be some water here but there's the Great Oxygen Event to consider....

[joamur_gosof]

I am off to do some hard research here as I am beginning to think we brought the water lol

[upthecreekyetagain]

---

@joamur_gosof wrote:

If some form of life can appear in certain conditions within the universe ,surly then with our capable eye we would have seen something ? It seems to me that we are a unique accident and the chance of it ever happening again (and heres the key) 'without our involvement ' is probably nil on the scale of things.

---

I would think quite the opposite - the radio was invented less than 150 years ago - compare that to the life of the universe or even the age of Earth - it is a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction.   Intelligent life could well have existed in close proximity to us many times in the past and since gone extinct.  Intelligent life may well evolve again here on Earth when man is extinct and equally be in the process of evolving on other relatively near bodies.but by the time they are able to send a message we may not be here.

If man manages to stay alive as a species for two thousand years with the capability of sending to and receiving messages from bodies within 2,000 light years the chance that another species will have evolved in that same time frame has to be very small.

[joamur_gosof]

Thats a good theory also that we are extinct before we get to meet each other in the time scale.A bit of a comady again considering the species curiosity.

To that note ...why is one (1) species even curious or bothered about finding out ? On scale again.

[upthecreekyetagain]

---

@cee-dee wrote:

Yes, but the thing is why and how did the Earth get and keep so much water?

It's logical that there would be some water here but there's the Great Oxygen Event to consider....

---

30% of the entire mass of the Earth is Oxygen - Hydrogen was abundant in the early years of Earth's formation, mainly as compounds of ammonia and methane.  One theory goes that the early massive volcanic eruptions spewed out these gases including water formed by various chemical reactions between oxides, hydroxides and acids.  As the Earth cooled the water vapour fell as rain, ultraviolet light broke down the ammonia and methane to release nitrogen and water vapour to release free oxygen and ozone, which in turn reduced the amount of ultra-violet light reaching us from the sun ending in a stable atmosphere with the current 4/5ths nitrogen, 1/5th oxygen apart from traces of other gases.

[joamur_gosof]

I cannot argue with the chemical reaction theories as its good science...the question is how is it not a multipul of reactions as its all basically the periodic table...there should be more of the same or similar within the same area and timezone (a reaction in time and space ,is just that) Unless like you suggested The big clock is really really big and it is a multipul of reactions,happened happening ,gonna happen.

The problem here is again us being of this nature.........I honestly would say the first door to unlock into finding out the whole truth is why we are evolving into (united not individually as such)  a really clever understanding species (who or what cares and wants us to find out and stranger still the knowledge will bring about ??? ) and we do find out don't we ...in time.

[upthecreekyetagain]

---

@joamur_gosof wrote:

I cannot argue with the chemical reaction theories as its good science...the question is how is it not a multipul of reactions as its all basically the periodic table...there should be more of the same or similar within the same area and timezone (a reaction in time and space ,is just that) Unless like you suggested The big clock is really really big and it is a multipul of reactions,happened happening ,gonna happen.

The problem here is again us being of this nature.........I honestly would say the first door to unlock into finding out the whole truth is why we are evolving into (united not individually as such)  a really clever understanding species (who or what cares and wants us to find out and stranger still the knowledge will bring about ??? ) and we do find out don't we ...in time.

---

One of the contributing factors has to be location - different distances from a star will result in different chemical reactions, (just look at our own solar systems.  again different distances from the centre of the original gas cloud from which a particular galaxy formed will result in massive variations in the size and composition of various bodies that coalesced to form stars, planets etc.

Then of course the size and number of super novas that create the clouds of heavy element gases from which these bodies evolved varies considerably as does the composition of the various elements they have fused in their final death throws.

To that add 'chaos' - the collision of bodies in space can in turn hinder or help the evolution of a planets makeup, size and orbit.

[cee-dee]

Have a read of this link and after that, if it's sparked interest have a look at some of the more "scientific" works associated with the event:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxygenation_Event

[upthecreekyetagain]

The problem with all these theories is that the more you read about them the more interesting they become and you end up digging deeper and deeper and spending more and more time doing so! 🙂

From what I have read so far the general consensus seems to be that the majority of the oxygen in our atmosphere in the form of O2 did come from the action of bacteria - however prior to that oxygen as a free gas had been released by the action of ultra-violet radiation on water molecules to free the hydrogen atoms and oxygen molecules, (constituting maybe 1 or 2 percent of the atmosphere at that time) - the O2 molecules in turn reacted to the ultra-violet radiation forming ozone molecules O3, which absorbs UV light.

[joamur_gosof]

Thanks cd ,the follow up RARE Earth theory was an awesome read ..and as upthecreeky just said ,begged more questions than it answered...the best bit was ''there may be 40 million life planets in the milkyway alone'' ,or 80 million possible set ups to....

no chance its all a massive 'oops'

[cee-dee]

Yes, when you read about the GOE and Snowball Earth and look at the time-scales, you begin to realise that we humans have been here for only a pin-prick in time?

The water aspect brings on mention of The Flood....... It's well-known that many cultures around the World have flood "myths". When anyone mentions "the flood" I usually ask "Which one?"

Is there enough water in the World to flood it all, all at once? No.

Ancient people didn't travel or communicate very far so a huge flood would cover the World as they knew it.

At the end of the last Ice Age there were many floods, probably due to ice dams breaking so it's not unreasonable to have ancients having had "flood events".

As for Noah, it's really idiotic to consider that an ancient could construct a vessel large enough and strong enough to carry more than a large flock of animals never mind two of every species on Earth.

[joamur_gosof]

Life as we know it  of cousre 🙂

[joamur_gosof]

The noah story though 'as just that a story' ,does hold the truths of the flooding events .

The more I read the more it seems seconds have past betwwen ancient man and ourselves...the strong urge for survival against the inevitable ,coupled with the fear of death seems the ancients set the human phyce up to try and get us off here before said inevitable......the only problem being ..is there isn't there an escape .

[joamur_gosof]

The other question of course is when oh when will we all get on the same wavelength and prepare or work towards the plan...instead of course counting 10p's and worrying if god has chosen me over you syndromes

[joamur_gosof]

I meant spelt correctly ..psyche ^^

[upthecreekyetagain]

@cee-dee wrote:

As for Noah, it's really idiotic to consider that an ancient could construct a vessel large enough and strong enough to carry more than a large flock of animals never mind two of every species on Earth.

---

Also depends on which chapter of Genesis you read! 

Chapter 6) - You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive.

Then in Chapter 7) - Take with you seven of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth

Chapter 7 of course begs the question, how did Noah know which were 'clean' animals and which 'unclean'? - this wasn't 'known' until God revealed this to Moses and Aaron in Leviticus!