Sir Jimmy Saville

[thecollectorssurplus]

No thread about this on here, so I thought I'd start one. 

My starter for ten is this: Okay, I'm not saying anybody is making anything up, but why did all these people wait till he was dead before accusing him of all this stuff? And quite frankly, now he's dead, what can come from it other than tarnishing a reputation that was spotless and upsetting his grieving family even further. Seems basically wrong to me. Why does someone always have to bring down our heroes and role models? They should have done what they're doing now ten years ago or not at all if you ask me.

Nick

[merehazle]

Im sure its his estate that will pay the victims.

If you mean the investigation costs then it actually always puzzles me how they work out what these things cost. Do they employ people who are not normally on the payroll already? I dont get it, detectives are being paid anyway, or is it overtime that they get paid above their normal wages that is the reason the 'cost' is always mentioned when something extraordinary happens?

If it's coming from any public funded body - the BBC being one.

'The detectives are being paid anyway' 

Yes, by a public funded body - encluding overtime.

[tommy.irene]

If saville was alive and taken to court and jailed..would the victims sue him. ........ i dont think so..

[bankhaunter]

What would stop them?

[merehazle]

If saville was alive and taken to court and jailed..would the victims sue him. ........ i dont think so..

Why not?

Lawyers are mostly there not to find the truth but to destroy your opponent.  And fill their boots.

I think the victims would have sued him.

# 239   'I'm sure it's his estate that will pay his victims'.

You could be right of course?

Any idea what he has please?  I'm sure it might be seized, but I doubt very much it will cover the likely bill.

Proof, that's the problem, some I'm sure will wander in and try it on 😉  thats where the costs rise.

[upthecreekyetagain]

Possibly the time scale.

The woman who sued the lottery winner who had raped her some years earlier had to get permission from the High Court to do so because the rape occured more than six years ago.

[tommy.irene]

Possibly the time scale.

The woman who sued the lottery winner who had raped her some years earlier had to get permission from the High Court to do so because the rape occured more than six years ago.

Thats what i though.. there would be a time limit..who can prove what you say is the truth.  now hes dead.

[upthecreekyetagain]

You put forward the scenario, "If saville was alive and taken to court and jailed..would the victims sue him", Tommy

If that were the case then proof of the act would not be an issue as that would already have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt - a level above that required in a civil court, "on the balance of probabilities".

The only obstacle would be the time scale for a civil action.

[**forum-decorum**]

Civil action, Prosecutions, sueing, compensation, what ever happens now whether you try to wipe his memory out or not, what this disgusting man has actually done to these people, this country will never ever be erased.

Nothing in this system will be capable of or good enough to heal the wounds, I am speachless really that this was allowed to happen, that a man was capable of so much grossly disgusting abuse.

Things like this actually re enforce the fact (for me anyway) that there really is an evil force out there, influencing the weak and weirdest of people to commit these atrocities, and I thank my God Jehovah that his promises are being fulfilled right now to finally put an end to all this terrible suffering of all kinds that the human race is experiencing. Roll on Armageddon:-x it can't come soon enough.

[cee-dee]

A little more decorum on the forum is required doncha think?;-)

[**forum-decorum**]

Why Cee dee, have I said something out of turn or nastily I apologise if I have.:-x

I typed what I really feel. These things happening are terrible aren't they?

[upthecreekyetagain]

Hardly more terrible than the extermination of seven billion people that you seem to be looking forward to 😮

[algasmoon]

No cult is squeeky clean. Force fed religion is dangerous and so is wishing for the end of the world. What an appalling philosophy.

http://jehovawitnessabuse.blogspot.co.uk/

[tommy.irene]

No cult is squeeky clean. Force fed religion is dangerous and so is wishing for the end of the world. What an appalling philosophy.

http://jehovawitnessabuse.blogspot.co.uk/

  I just read that jehova witness abuse..

[**forum-decorum**]

Of course that will be a natural reaction from anyone who doesn't agree with or believe in it.

But I don't agree it is appalling.

To wish for a time when all will be living in harmony, unity, peace and righteousness and free from wickness, pain, sickness and death seams a very understable thing to do in my opinion.

Of course I believe in the promises that will bring all that about, what a wonderful prividge I have if I can survive through to that new world. I am certainly going to try by appreciating my creator.

There is a very very noticeable difference between what the victims of Saviles atrocities suffered and any thing Creeky is commenting on.

Saviles victims had no choice, hes just did what he did, Jehovah on the othere hand pleads with mankind, is giving every single person the choice of life, the ones that don't survive into the new world have made their choice they have chosen their course. Each and everyone who turns away a Witness at their door is making their choice, you cannot blame the Grand creator for that.

It is a case of how you look at it, I look at it as a wonderful saving of life, the ones who turn away look at it as a destruction.

Algasmoon, The organisation is not a cult where we are force fed religion, on the contrary we are given the chance to learn and learn at our own pace because we choose to. We are certainly not dangerous, the principles we live by are honourable, loving and honest ones.

We are taught to display the fruitages of the spirit Galations 5:22-26,

22-On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long suffering, kindness, goodness and faith. 23-Mildness, self-control, againsts such things there is not law. 24- Moreover, those who belong to Christ Jesus impaled the flesh together with its passions and desires. 25-If we are living by spirit, let us go on walking orderly also by spirit. 26-Let us not become egotistical stirring up competition with one another envying one another.

Those qualities are in contrast to those we are warned against in Galations 5:19-21,   Now the works of the flesh are

manifest, and they are fornication, uncleanness. loose conduct, 20-idolatry, practice of spiritism, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions,divisions,sects,  21-envies, drunken bouts revelries and things like these, As to these things I am fore warning YOU the same way as I did fore warn YOU that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s kingdom.

The link you have put up is a blog from someone who is opposed to the organisation so of course they will use any material they can to discredit it. Even if it means twisting and blowing up out of all proportion and bending their own experiences - why because they are now under the influence of the very one influencing and misleading the entire inhabited earth.

[margaret*e]

Bargains , are you saying that item is untrue, or it is true and

s houldn't be made public

, or it's acceptable to treat such young children that way in the name o religion?.

[**forum-decorum**]

Bargains , are you saying that item is untrue, or it is true and

s houldn't be made public

, or it's acceptable to treat such young children that way in the name o religion?.

Hi marge,

What I am saying is, That person may very well have been a witness then come out of the organistation, and what they have done is told a few things in a way to get non believers to judge the organisation as very bad.

The content they are making public is not all true. Yes children accompany their parents to the meetings, Even Jesus accepted/invited the children to listen. We love and cherish all our children and one thing that is not taught is to beat our children for wrong doings.

We discipline our children when necessary yes, but it is done in a loving non violent way. We teach, love and nerture our children not use and abuse them. Young children cannot sit for long periods of time and keep concentrating like an adult, so we lovingly make allowances, find ways to help them keep happy and accupied we do have breaks for personal needs like a meal etc. Play etc when we have special assemblies and conventions.

I can assure you if that type of treatment was dished out to a child in our congreation it would not go unchecked it would certainly not be condoned and allowed to continue and I am sure a brother would not become an elder if he was doing it.

I am not saying any of us are perfect non of us are, but that type of treatment is not taught or condoned,

[upthecreekyetagain]

Of course that will be a natural reaction from anyone who doesn't agree with or believe in it.

But I don't agree it is appalling.

You don't think it appalling that seven billion people's total existence will be wiped out and that some being will only resurrect those who have served him to his satisfaction and promote a tiny, tiny number to join him.

I respect your right to believe whatever you wish but please respect my right to say that if your beliefs are the truth then I would rather be wiped out than live forever under the rule of such a megalomaniac!

As it is I do believe that when I die that will be the end of me - no afterlife, nothing.  So perhaps our beliefs aren't that far apart except for the fact that I do respect an individuals right to life and think it appalling that anyone should think that they or anyone else has the right to end that life.

[**forum-decorum**]

Of course I respect your right to your opinions creeky, and so be it if you judge our creator as you do.

Thankfully I have learned and understand the reasons that he has given for his promises.

Life itself is a gift from God, and as he is the Supreme Almighty God and creator he has the authourity to set out the rules that we should live by and the authourity to act to safeguard the righteous ones who stay obedient.

As you say, you have a right to your choice, and me likewise.:-)

One thing I don't really understand is why do people think his rules are so bad.

We are required to live by rules such as we don't steal, lie or cheat. We don't fight, wage war or murder. We have clean living lives, we don't take some one elses spouse, we don't defile our bodies, we love our neighbour and are not prejudice against others, we try to overcome sinful traits like jealousy, and hate, all these requirements we actually benifit from now.

Makes us better, nicer, people.

[upthecreekyetagain]

One thing I don't really understand is why do people think his rules are so bad.

Nothing wrong with the "rules" in general but the rules I live by are those which I either choose to live by or are ones imposed by a democratically elected authority - not ones imposed by a dictator who won't even discuss them.

[**forum-decorum**]

 imposed by a democratically elected authority

I can see your reasoning there creeky, but I do choose to live by the rules that Jehovah requires us to live by he does not force me to.. He in my opinion has discussed them, he has explained them all very well with the reasons for them being for the benifit of all mankind.

It also states in the bible that the worldly authorities stand in their relative positions because Jehovah has allowed it, because it does serve his purpose at present.

I do understand and accept not everyone is going to share the same beliefs as I, I do respect the people who choose not to. We are all given the freedom and right to choose without being ridiculed and mocked.:-)

I also appreciate it when people like yourself allows me to state my opinions with that very same respect.