Rolf Harris

[logbox]

Today in court Rolf sang part of Jake the peg and demonstated how to play the digeridoo, tomorrow he might do two little boys.

[right-then-petal]

[designer_label_girl]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

I can't think of any other law akin to those regarding underage sex where two individuals engage consensually in an illegal act but one party is a victim the other an offender.

If a 15 year old and a 20 year old agreed to break into a house then both would be guilty of an offence - the same pair having sex and only the 20 year old is guilty of an offence.

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The age of criminal responsibility in the UK is 10.

So if a 9-year-old accompanied, say, his father to do a bit of breaking and entering, the 9-year-old wouldn't get prosecuted.

On the contrary, the father might be held responsible for his child's behaviour.

In your example, if the 20-year-old had hung on for a year then all would have been well. Children are off limits, no matter how mature they might seem. That was the case when Rolf Harris was a young man. Nothing has changed.

[astrologica]

Absolutely! Although he has already been tried and convicted on here.

[designer_label_girl]

Nah. We'd be guilty of contempt of court if that were true. Luckily I doubt the jury will be scouring Ebay for gossip. They might be locked out of their accounts still, apart from anything else!

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@designer_label_girl wrote:

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

I can't think of any other law akin to those regarding underage sex where two individuals engage consensually in an illegal act but one party is a victim the other an offender.

If a 15 year old and a 20 year old agreed to break into a house then both would be guilty of an offence - the same pair having sex and only the 20 year old is guilty of an offence.

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The age of criminal responsibility in the UK is 10.

So if a 9-year-old accompanied, say, his father to do a bit of breaking and entering, the 9-year-old wouldn't get prosecuted.

On the contrary, the father might be held responsible for his child's behaviour.

In your example, if the 20-year-old had hung on for a year then all would have been well. Children are off limits, no matter how mature they might seem. That was the case when Rolf Harris was a young man. Nothing has changed.

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I understand what you are saying and agree that children are 'off limits'.

What I find strange is that the person under 16 who willingly partakes in a sexual act is not also guilty of a criminal act.

The law assumes that children over the age of 10 know what is right and what is wrong and the meaning of a criminal act - even when it is not a dishonest act such as buying or attempting to buy alcohol under the age of 18.

[electric*mayhem*band]

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@designer_label_girl wrote:

They might be locked out of their accounts still, apart from anything else!

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[designer_label_girl]

Technically they are. Willing or not.

But they're not going to get prosecuted for it even if, say, it involved a boy of 15 and a girl of 14. There'd be much tutting and muttering and police involvement but there would probably be no case. When one person is an adult, it all changes.

Repressive countries would prosecute underage children for willingly, or even unwillingly, 'partaking' in a sexual act. Can't see it happening in the UK.

[astrologica]

Could you please explain in what way they have NOT appeared with dignity, and NOT appeared as a solid family unit, during their arrivals and departures from this court hearing?

[rose2008-2008]

When Rolf and his family have been going to and exiting the courts most people would realize i think that they may put on a good show of appearing solid and dignified but its OBVIOUS their NOT!. The daughter has been in a state banging her head against a wall and smashing up pictures upon hearing her friend had been assaulted by her father and if anyone really thinks that his wife feels solid and dignified about Rolfs sordid goings on then they must be on another planet. I also add that when they walk in the door when they get home i think it would be a completely different picture you would see if you were a fly on the wall!!. Its a show put on for the public ect!.

[astrologica]

How do you know that? You are making a presumption about their home life. It is quite plain that you have decided that he is guilty when the trial hasn't even ended. Just as well that you are not a member of the jury.
Being a member of a jury, and watching the accused and their body language, and listening to all of the evidence, is vastly different to just reading about it in the newspapers. Newspapers tend to distort evidence to make sensational reading.
A few years ago I was a member of the jury on a lengthy court case....ten weeks long. Each day I would read the newspaper accounts of what had gone on in court. Sometimes it was twisted and presented in a way that bore no resemblance to the real thing.
SoI am sure that it is the same with Rolf's case. Nothing is obvious, except their behaviour entering and leaving the court.

[rose2008-2008]

I dont KNOW it,  and i do know what you mean but i suppose im saying the odds are and in most cases people make a show of a united front in the public and its quite a different thing in their private domain!. Nothing to do with wether he is guilty or not really when i am saying this. A lot of people just seem to take things at face value and believe what they see!. Or they dont want to believe the truth.

I know newspapers distort the truth and its something they should NOT DO!!!. especially when a court case is involved. They should not be allowed to print anything thats based on gossip or out and out lies.

[saasher2012]

Whoa ladies! You both are entitled to your opinion so let's leave it at that agree to disagree cos it's getting to the point where it seems to be brow beating. I assume neither of you know this man personally & yet you both seem to have formed opposing views & neither of you are going to see eye to eye on it , so throw the towel in !.

[bankhaunter]

Being a member of a jury, and watching the accused and their body language, and listening to all of the evidence, is vastly different to just reading about it in the newspapers.

Very true and it is also what the papers leave out that may be important.

It's often small details that can make all the difference in establishing the veracity of the 'victim' or a witness.

[**bustysinclaire**]

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@saasher2012 wrote:
Whoa ladies! You both are entitled to your opinion so let's leave it at that agree to disagree cos it's getting to the point where it seems to be brow beating. I assume neither of you know this man personally & yet you both seem to have formed opposing views & neither of you are going to see eye to eye on it , so throw the towel in !.

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lol xxxx

[rose2008-2008]

LOL Busty,

[merehazle]

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@!!**bustysinclaire** wrote:

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@saasher2012 wrote:
Whoa ladies! You both are entitled to your opinion so let's leave it at that agree to disagree cos it's getting to the point where it seems to be brow beating. I assume neither of you know this man personally & yet you both seem to have formed opposing views & neither of you are going to see eye to eye on it , so throw the towel in !.

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lol xxxx

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Naaaaaaaaah!!! don't be offended, but what you want to spoil it for?  They are both strong young ladies. Let them disagree ALL they want. Cos its about time we had some ''exitement'' on here.  I know the mod team and I was at the meeting this evening. And they weighed the argument up, and agreed, that they should finish it the way they want. That's how it is supposed to work after all. And it was getting to the point where I was getting my tea and biscuits by my lap top. (wink)

The meeting.  I'll give you the minutes (well seconds) of the meeting later girls.

[ed_blackadder_1]

May I put my tuppence worth in please.   It has not yet been proved that he assaulted a child or children he has admitted to adultery with the girl when she was 18.  That is as far as it goes isn't it. It is up to the jury to decide if he is lying not us, and what he looks like or the manner in which he appears in court have nothing to do with his guilt.  If he is found guilty then I for one would say put him away and throw away the key, even more so because he would have lied through his back teeth, but if he is found not guilty then how on earth is he going to rebuild his life, with the hang 'em first ask questions later culture in our media.

Just a reminder adultery is not a criminal offence, his family can support or not support him that is their business. 

[astrologica]

Hello Merehazle! Thank you for the compliment, but I'm not a 'young lady'! I'm 70 years old...and I've been around for a while! I won't be posting any more on the subject of Rolf. As one poster said, there are varying opinions on the subject. I wouldn't dream of presuming Rolf's guilt or innocence...that is for the jury to decide. I just have a gut feeling that he is not guilty of the charges brought against him, and I think it is quite touching to see the support his family are giving him. That was the basic gist of my posts. And as you know, I'm a Welsh lady with a love of Art. Rolf's wife Alwen is Welsh, and an Artist, so I have a lot of empathy for her.

[saasher2012]

Strong feelings on both sides ! I for one feel the greatest sympathy for R H wife she has got to sit through the gory details & it takes guts to do that, I also was very shocked to find he was on the pilloried list as I've said before guilty or not the stigma sticks nobody wins!. I concede that adultery is not a crime & I understand people sticking up for him on this point, but in the end it's all speculation , if he is found guilty then he deserves everything he gets, if acquitted I'm afraid people will still doubt him it's a no win situation for him.

[merehazle]

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@astrologica wrote:
Hello Merehazle! Thank you for the compliment, but I'm not a 'young lady'! I'm 70 years old...and I've been around for a while! I won't be posting any more on the subject of Rolf. As one poster said, there are varying opinions on the subject. I wouldn't dream of presuming Rolf's guilt or innocence...that is for the jury to decide. I just have a gut feeling that he is not guilty of the charges brought against him, and I think it is quite touching to see the support his family are giving him. That was the basic gist of my posts. And as you know, I'm a Welsh lady with a love of Art. Rolf's wife Alwen is Welsh, and an Artist, so I have a lot of empathy for her.

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Yes, thank you astro, and I agreed with you at my #14.  Take care.

Innocent until found guilty. Some want it the other way round. They wouldn't if it were them, or a loved one.