Rolf Harris

[logbox]

Today in court Rolf sang part of Jake the peg and demonstated how to play the digeridoo, tomorrow he might do two little boys.

[ed_blackadder_1]

Rose I am sorry I know you feel strongly about it, but he isn't on trial for cheating on his wife. I personally think his wife and daughter have been amazing through all of the trial, I don't think I could be quite so strong as them with all the attention they are getting.  It was her choice to forgive him and carry on with the marriage, many marriages do remain even when one person has cheated and until any of us are put in that situation then I don't think we would know what we would do.  We can pass comment on what she should or shouldn't do but in the end it was her decision. 

I know he has done some really stupid things, but until it is proved that he is guilty I will presume he is innocent.  We only read the sensational pieces written in the papers and see the reports on the TV, we are not in court and don't hear everything that is being said.  I say leave it to the professionals and the jury.

[astrologica]

Rose....we have discussed this concept on another thread...the concept of forgiveness. During this trial, Rolf, and his wife, and his daughter have behaved with dignity going in and coming out of the court. As we discussed on the other thread, No..he did not behave with dignity when he betrayed his family...he was a young man. When we are young, most of us do things that we regret later in life, and some of us hurt other people. Rolf hurt his family. Obviously he has had to confess his adultery and probably asked his family to forgive him. The fact that they are accompanying him to court speaks volumes. It is obvious that they are still a family.
People commit adultery every day, for whatever reasons they feel they have. As I said on the other thread, people's marriages are their own business...and it is not for us to assume why he did it. It is quite plain that for you, adultery is an unforgivable betrayal, but the reality is that for others it may be something that could be forgiven. It certainly appears that Rolf's family have forgiven him. Well....good for them.

[evoman3957]

Well one thing's for sure and it's a lesson we should all have learned by now, don't believe everything you read in newspapers; we all know about their morality, don't we. The only people who know EVERY piece of evidence and can make as informed a descision as possible, is the jury. The judge will undoubtedly inform them of the legalities and give them any help, should they require it. If they can't reach a unanimous descision, the judge my even tell them a majority 10 to 2 verdict will be acceptable..................but they will decide and then we'll know.

[designer_label_girl]

Committed adultery?

That makes it sound like he was having affairs with grown women of, or around, his own age.

But he wasn't.

The age gap was significant.

This case is a spin-off from the Savile enquiry. Paedophilia was a crime when Savile was doing his worst and it's still a crime now.

But, just to clarify so I am not in contempt of court, I must reiterate that Harris is innocent until proven guilty.

[astrologica]

Adultery is adultery....whatever the age of those committing it. It could quite well be a spin off from the Savile enquiry, in that the Savile enquiry motivated scores of women to crawl out from their piles of empty drinks bottles to decide that they were 'abused' by some celebrity or other with money. And most of them have admitted that after it happened once, they went back for more.
Would any of you posters who are so quick to condemn go back for more after being 'abused' once? Some of these accused will be guilty, eg. Max Clifford, Stuart Hall, but others will be innocent.
And I don't know the ages of the posters who are so ready to presume guilt, but I am old enough to remember those times, and they were very different from today, with different attitudes and values.

[astrologica]

Oh...and. I meant to add...there are many older men who should know better, who have been unable to resist the interest and advances of very young girls. All young girls are not innocent, as much as we would like to think they are.

[designer_label_girl]

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@astrologica wrote:
Adultery is adultery....whatever the age of those committing it. It could quite well be a spin off from the Savile enquiry, in that the Savile enquiry motivated scores of women to crawl out from their piles of empty drinks bottles to decide that they were 'abused' by some celebrity or other with money. And most of them have admitted that after it happened once, they went back for more.
Would any of you posters who are so quick to condemn go back for more after being 'abused' once? Some of these accused will be guilty, eg. Max Clifford, Stuart Hall, but others will be innocent.
And I don't know the ages of the posters who are so ready to presume guilt, but I am old enough to remember those times, and they were very different from today, with different attitudes and values.

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I haven't condemned Rolf Harris. At the moment, he must be regarded as innocent.

Max Clifford and Stuart Hall were found guilty because they were brought to trial. The police and the DPP thought it important enough to do. They think it important enough to do with Rolf Harris too. They have spent enormous sums of money, and many hours, preparing cases. They are not doing all this just for the fun of it. Sadly, Savile never did get his comeuppance and his victims - some of them amongst the most vulnerable people you can imagine - may not get much closure. 

[designer_label_girl]

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 And most of them have admitted that after it happened once, they went back for more.  Would any of you posters who are so quick to condemn go back for more after being 'abused' once?

That's the *amazing* thing about children. They have a habit of doing what the grown-up tells them to do. Well, they did in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

I am old enough to remember those times, and they were very different from today, with different attitudes and values.

You sound like my father. He is a great one for blaming women for being molested. But he absolutely draws the line at adults molesting children. Harris's accusers were under the age of consent and about the same age as his own daughter.  Paedophilia was unlawful then as it is now.

It is a shame that children get blamed for the behaviour of adults who should know better.

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[joe_bloggs*]

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@designer_label_girl wrote:

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 And most of them have admitted that after it happened once, they went back for more.  Would any of you posters who are so quick to condemn go back for more after being 'abused' once?

That's the *amazing* thing about children. They have a habit of doing what the grown-up tells them to do. Well, they did in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

I am old enough to remember those times, and they were very different from today, with different attitudes and values.

You sound like my father. He is a great one for blaming women for being molested. But he absolutely draws the line at adults molesting children. Harris's accusers were under the age of consent and about the same age as his own daughter.  Paedophilia was unlawful then as it is now.

It is a shame that children get blamed for the behaviour of adults who should know better.

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Very true,I,m half way through a book "Slavery Inc,by Lydia Cacho she travelled the world listening to and documenting what usually governments and other orginisations refer to as people trafficking,but bluntly it's really all about the se*ual expolitation of children,She travelled i think to Thailand observing white males(usually in their 50's or 60's) openly parading around with girls,some not even teenagers,one of the first words they learn to say is "Farang",meaning foreigner,She later visited a refuge largely funded by western donations,where girls were given a safe place to stay and try and learn to be children again,she watched a 9 year old girl walking around in a provocative way,flicking her hair back and pouting,she watched this girl rejoin the rest of them,she listened to them talking to each other in Thai,suddenly amongst the girls chatter came an american accent saying Very good baby,this came from the 9 year old.I thought  to myself later the truly horrendous implications of those few words.

No doubt these Children would have "went back for more"  (as someone so nicely put it) if they had not have been rescued

I don't know if anyone has seen

"BANGKOK GIRL -- Thailand Night Life Documentary" on youtube,

About a girl called Pla,her story

[astrologica]

I am not blaming children for being molested at all. There will always be men accused of abusing children, and some of those will be totally innocent, others very guilty. In some cases the abused girls are innocent, and the abuse is horrendous. But some of these girls are 13, 14, 15 years of age...in the eyes of the law still children, but in reality not children any more and quite capable of leading weak men into affairs or, in their words, abuse.
As Evoman says, only the jury will be in full possession of all the evidence, so they will decide.

[upthecreekyetagain]

I can't think of any other law akin to those regarding underage sex where two individuals engage consensually in an illegal act but one party is a victim the other an offender.

If a 15 year old and a 20 year old agreed to break into a house then both would be guilty of an offence - the same pair having sex and only the 20 year old is guilty of an offence.

[upthecreekyetagain]

As an aside how does the UK law deal with say a married couple from Denmark where one of the partners is under 16 and the other over 16?

[bankhaunter]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

I can't think of any other law akin to those regarding underage sex where two individuals engage consensually in an illegal act but one party is a victim the other an offender.

If a 15 year old and a 20 year old agreed to break into a house then both would be guilty of an offence - the same pair having sex and only the 20 year old is guilty of an offence.

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Many years ago members of an S&M club were prosecuted for causing actual bodily harm even though the 'victim' was a willing participant.

The case did show the lie that for many years was used as an excuse by the police for not prosecuting those who abused their partner, the lie being that the abused person must support the case.

As for your second point, it would appear that being legally married is not a defence under the 2003 act.

• No defence for lawfully married couples (foreign nationals) where one party is under 16.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/rape_and_sexual_offences/soa_2003_and_soa_1956/#a22

[rose2008-2008]

I know hes not on trial for committing adultery yes i know that,,, If he was my husband if there was even a hint or question that hes had anything to do with underage youngsters,,me and my children would NOT be standing dignified or solid with him AT ALL!!, not until it was proven that he was completely innocent. I cant understand anyone saying he has done this and lying!!. But i know some have!. He did actually say "you look good in that Bikini" to a 13 year old girl. Thats disgusting. I think im right that he did admit to saying this yes?.

I know he should be innocent until proven yes your right. But im going to stick my neck out and say i think he will be guilty.. Sadly.

[tommy.irene]

Rolf Harris' Daughter 'Smashed Up Paintings'

The star says his daughter, Bindi, was "beside herself" when she heard allegations he had assaulted her friend.

news.sky.com 5:10pm, 29 May 2014

[tommy.irene]

Rolf Harris 'Victim' Gets Timeline Wrong

Former actress Tonya Lee admits there are mistakes in her evidence - but insists the entertainer did indecently assault her.

news.sky.com 

[tommy.irene]

Rolf Harris 'Assaulted Mum And Daughter'

The star is called a "disgusting creature" by an alleged victim, whose daughter also claims to have been assaulted by him.

news.sky.com 

[rose2008-2008]

Yep,,,,Dignified and SOLID??????.  NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

[designer_label_girl]

Exactly. It is stomach turning to think that there are adults out there who treat children like this. Absolutely stomach turning. I don't know how these grotesque adults live with themselves.

[designer_label_girl]

I distinctly remember a QC getting a giant rollocking recently for describing a 13-year-old girl as predatory. The bbc link is here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24340973

You do realise everyone under the age of 16 counts as a child? So yes, you are blaming children, who, as joebloggs says, may have been sexualised by adults.

Children have to learn how to behave in a provocative way. They pick it up from adults.  I am reminded of Monsoon Wedding.

It's absolutely pitiful the way grown men try and blame underage girls for leading them astray. It's pathetic.

As with Oscar Pistorius, the only people who really know what happened are the people directly involved: Rolf Harris and the girls. Hopefully the judge will direct the jury with fairness and wisdom.