OK, in or out?

[cee-dee]

How about an RT poll?

No reasons, no argument, no debate just a straightforward IN or OUT.

Me? OUT.

[fallen-archie]

• The debate is really hotting up now, Brexit campaigners have started to press home the awful immigration statistics. Let's hope that they have a good repatriation programme for all those Somali, Bangladeshi, Pakistani, Nigerian, Syrian, Iranian, Turkish, Sudanese, Iraqi, Palestinian, Brazilian, Gambian and other non EU immigrants who have set up shop here. It's a win win all round.

[cee-dee]

I was watching a programme where they rounded up some illegals and during it they said that there could be a million illegals here. Dunno how they estimated that but the stupidity of having to let illegals out on bail (so they disappear again) when they can't prove their origin needs stopping. It means they have to waste more money finding them again.

[astrologica]

We can take the number of migrants that are given leave to remain, and multiply it by three or four or five, because as soon as their status is legal then they apply to bring over their families, however many that may be. And that's just the legal ones. This country has been sleepwalking into a disaster of huge proportions. And now we have boats landing on our shores, trafficking in illegals. As Mr Farage pointed out this week...we could be finding bodies on our beaches before too long if nothing is done. How many would it take before the government wakes up I wonder. There are an estimated seven thousand migrants in France, all intending to get here by some means or other. Meanwhile...Medecin Sans Frontieres, the charity, has put up some nice tents for them on the beach at Dieppe, to keep them comfy while they wait for a boat to smuggle them over. It beggars belief...how much more encouragement to they need?..OUT.

[joe_bloggs*]

[artful_dodgings]

First class post overleaf @ #457, by Evoman. Unfortunately I am only permitted to give you one Kudo. If I could, it would be more. I just wish Michael Gove had it contained in his notes, when he was interviewed on his EU referendum TV debate.

 Biggest laugh was on tonight's BBC news bulletin, which showed part of Kinnock the Welsh Windbag's blustering remain speech. From someone who was part of the EU gravy train for long enough, and who, along with his missus, trousered an absolute fortune from being there, to quote Mandy Rice-Davies, "Well he would say that, wouldn't he" ?

[upthecreekyetagain]

---

@astrologica wrote:

We can take the number of migrants that are given leave to remain, and multiply it by three or four or five, because as soon as their status is legal then they apply to bring over their families, however many that may be. And that's just the legal ones. This country has been sleepwalking into a disaster of huge proportions. And now we have boats landing on our shores, trafficking in illegals. As Mr Farage pointed out this week...we could be finding bodies on our beaches before too long if nothing is done. How many would it take before the government wakes up I wonder. There are an estimated seven thousand migrants in France, all intending to get here by some means or other. Meanwhile...Medecin Sans Frontieres, the charity, has put up some nice tents for them on the beach at Dieppe, to keep them comfy while they wait for a boat to smuggle them over. It beggars belief...how much more encouragement to they need?..OUT.

---

I understand what you are saying but am at a loss as to how leaving the EU will help alleviate the problem - the opposite is far more likely as far as I can see.

We would lose what little assistance we receive from the French including having immigration checks in France prior to departure.  What incentive would the French have to spend money on trying to stop migrants trying to hide in trucks for instance?  The more that left France for these shores the better off they would be.

I can't imagine the French trying to turn back boats leaving their shores either.

Illegal immigration control is surely an argument for staying in the EU.  Legal immigration of EU citizens is a different matter but how will that work if we leave the EU but want to stay in the single market?

I'm tending towards an in vote, not because the IN campaign have compelling arguments but because the arguments coming from the Leave campaign make little sense.

[artful_dodgings]

We're IN the EU now, and has anyone noticed a reduction in immigration ? Certainly I haven't. Back in 2010, Call Me Dave pledged to reduce net migration into Britain to below 100,000 – “No ifs, no buts” was the clearly defined mission statement promise. It's now halfway through 2016...and still they come !

True our excuse for a Prime Minister announced a series of radical new measures to clamp down, on immigration, but official statistics have revealed that net migration has instead soared to 318,000. Yes, net migration has risen consistently over the last few years, and Dodgy Dave's pledge has now been watered down from a 'promise' to an 'ambition'.

And he still hasn't got a clue.

'I'm tending towards an in vote, not because the IN campaign have compelling arguments but because the arguments coming from the Leave campaign make little sense'.

If I myself came to that conclusion, I'd deem that the fairest thing to do under the circumstances would be to vote for neither, and abstain altogether. Your prerogative of course.

[upthecreekyetagain]

. . . but why vote for a campaign that claims it will cut down on immigration but has as its basis an action, (leave the EU), that will make it more difficult to do so?

Much coming out of the remain campaign is misleading, coming out of the leave campaign are blatant lies!

Maybe you are right, abstention would be the right choice but the other option is to rather than listen to politicians is to go by personal experience.

The vast majority of my peers, friends and families have a higher standard of living than they did in '73 - the services we benefit from are unrecognisable and prospects for the young are far more varied.  I don't know how much of that is down to being in the EU nor how much better it might have been had we never joined but why should I listen to those lying to me and vote for a change?

[cee-dee]

Seems I was right at #14?

[artful_dodgings]

Yes CD, I've had Creeky down as an 'In' vote all the way through this thread, reading between the lines of his posts - despite his 'Fence' position @ #13.

When everyone else voted either In/Out, nice to be individualistic and different I suppose. *rolls out of thread in hysterics*

[astrologica]

Creeky.....as regards migration, the world is in a very turbulent place, with most of the migrants from Africa and the Middle East wanting to go to Europe and in many cases, specifically the UK.  No-one knows how this migration crisis is going to pan out. It could get much worse than it is now, and if it does it would be far better for us if we could choose who and how many we want to let come and live here, rather than have to toe the European line and have as many as Frau Merkel tells us we have to have.

As for the French....if we were out of the EU we would not have to bend to their will and **bleep** foot around trying to please them any more. We could impose sanctions where it would hurt if they refuse to play the game regarding migrants.

[astrologica]

So Creeky...you think the prospects for the young are more varied. Have you got youngsters working their socks off in the hope of one day owning their own home? They haven't got a hope in hell unless Granny and Grandad help them out, or they can go to the Bank of Mum and Dad. Some of them can't even get a job, and when they do it's for peanuts because of the low wages being driven down by immigrants . But then...as we are in the EU they can always go and work in Romania or Albania or in one of the other poverty stricken EU countries. The way of life in those countries is almost Medieval...that's why they all want to live HERE!

And most of what is bandied about by the Remainians is just fear inducing supposition. No-one knows what is going to happen whichever way the vote goes. I'm not listening to the endless recitation of figures...billions here, millions there...I am looking at what's happening in the Mediterranean, and now in the English Channel. I see that on TV and I know that that is true...it is not actors playing those migrants..they are real. That is enough for me. I am voting out for my grandchildren.

[cee-dee]

I think there's no real "facts", it's all either guesswork or scaremongering.

The facts are what you see in Europe, the "figures" are not facts, they've been plucked out of thin air.

(Why's that other thread been moved from it's original site and dumped on the RT?)

[fallen-archie]

Fly Tippers I reckon, it's a national disgrace,

[evoman3957]

How anybody can " search the boards for a topic on this subject and miss THIS one " is somewhat perplexing, I seem to have been commenting on the subject ( on here ) forever and a day already.

[fallen-archie]

Fragmentation is rife, groups of posters working in silos, within their comfort zone etc. All fine really until a thread gets moved to keep boards on topic.

[artful_dodgings]

Once this thread hits page 25, CD gets an eBay 'Long Thread Award'. It's similar to a 'Long Service Medal' but doesn't carry the same cachet or prestige...or the customary presentation Gold Watch for that matter.

Come on folks, three more posts to go, and he'll be in receipt of his framed and much coveted diploma.

[0125arwen]

You would think after all these years there would be plenty of reasons, real reasons

that people can put forward to show why we are better off in the EU,

but no not a thing.

We get outright lies and exagerations,

like the EU keeps the peace,

like the EU gave us human rights,

like the EU gave us holiday pay entitlements,

like we have free movement,

like the EU brings prosperity,

like the EU has raised standards of living when quite clearly for millions it has destroyed them.

The list is endless, the problem is those willing to look already know this,

the rest don't care enough to take the blinkers off.

[fallen-archie]

Gawd looks like war and peace has competition.
Many of the points made which outline control by the EU are just as valid for religions, seldom a peaceful outcome there.
Lots of people rabbit on about taking back control, did we ever have it?
I don't like the EU or its impact on this Island yet the be exit campaign continues to promote a story which evades facts and promises ambrosia once we leave. Is that before or after we commence ethnic cleansing?

[evoman3957]

I'm still trying to work out why people think the EU are the only ones that can pass laws ( legislation ). If anybody feels that the EU has passed legislation, that has benefited us, then; if by leaving, that law becomes void / negated........we can pass the law ourselves, for our own country, with our own parliament............I take it people remember how that works for Christs sake !!