Numbered & or Limited Editions

[evoman3957]

Truly a rarity and a pleasure to own, or false rarity created by people; so they can ask stupid amounts of money for them ???

[cee-dee]

It depends on what the item is and how many are/were made.

Looking at some "limited edition" plates over the last 20 years or so, their current auction price is very, very low.

[evoman3957]

Well, not to bore too many people; because not everybody collects stuff although, being vaguely eBay related, it should be of at least some interest. As I've mentioned before, I collect Pens & Bullion Coins; so as an example.........coins first. The Perth mint released a coin ( minted on behalf of the Island state of Tuvalu ) called the " Deadly and Dangerous " series of coins. The first coin in the series was called the " Red Back Spider " and had a picture of said Spider on the front of the coin. The coin sold out quickly ( it was a limited edition of only 5000 coins ) and the issue price, when it was released, was approx £60 +. As the rest of the series was released, the first in the series became in great demand, probably because many didn't buy it; because they didn't realize how popular the series would become. The price of the first coin ( Red Back Spider ) shot up to over £1000 and so the Perth Mint released another 5000 coins and sold them as being for the Russian market ( they has Russian writing on them ). They now sell for over £300 each, not as much as the true original ones; but a scam none the less, to cash in on a coin that should NEVER have been reproduced once the limited number had run out.

Now Pens.....I collect Mont Blanc among others and have all of the Pens in the " Writers Editions" series of Pens. Mont Blanc have just released the latest in the series, called William Shakespeare and all the Pens have the writers signatures engraved into the top portion of the pens. All the pens are limited to under 2000 pens and I have acquired all of the past ones, for considerably less than the original selling price. The pens are made of what Mont Blanc like to call precious " special" resin, a concoction of theirs; the ingredients of which are a closely guarded secret ( but not to put too finer point on it, it's a kind of plastic / acrylic ). The metal parts are gold or platinum plated base metal. Mont Blanc have just had yet another price increase and the price of this latest pen ( ballpoint ) is £570. Now I have all of the pens and to keep the collection going, I need to get this latest one; but if I paid £570 for a plastic pen with gold plated base metal parts ( even if is does have Mont Blanc written on it ) I'd seriously need my brains tested.

[aand2136-voqfz8yx]

The 'value' of everything is based on how much it is worth to that person and as such every item has multiple values. You're obviously a serious collector and if you have the money and 'must' have it, then buy it, because to you, it is worth it. It's irrelevant what the rest of the world value your collection at, it's how much it is worth to you.

[evoman3957]

I see what you're saying, but unless money really is no object and I certainly don't fit in that category; there has to be parameters and limits to what I'd pay.  There's no point in having champagne tastes on bear money, a prize hard won is a prize worth having.

[cee-dee]

There are two issues around "collecting". 1/ desirability and 2/ "value".

The first thing uppermost in the mind of those buying is that they like the item(s) so much that the cost isn't an issue for them. Sometimes obsession isn't far away.....

The second thing about collected items is their estimated future value. Some "collectors" bought with that in mind and with "Limited Editions", many are not what you'd call "limited" at all and those items are now worth a fraction of their initial purchase price. Greed took over?

[theelench]

As CeeDee said in #6 "Greed took over".  I bought a 1oz silver Britannia from the Mint as a keep-sake of the millennium, it cost £13.  Then I decided to buy one for each of my nephews plus the previous issues and to continue buying them each year until I drop off the perch, something to leave them that might even have increased in value if I live long enough.  I sometimes wonder if I'm doing them any good or if it would be better to just put the money aside for them.

I stopped buying from the mint and bought elsewhere when their price hit £65.  What amazed me was all the marketing material from the mint and the plethora of "collectors" coins they issue.  £5, £2, £1 and 50p coins, different every year and available in Platinum, Gold, Silver, tinted, Proof, BU or uncirculated and all with massive mark-ups.  An uncirculated £1 was about £20.  Even the catalogue I used to buy every few years said it couldn't keep up with all the new issues and they only had an approximate list.

Who can keep up with this flood and how collectable are they?  To me this is plain greed and a lot of investors will get their fingers burnt (just as with the collectable plates mentioned already).

On the other hand I've just paid well over the odds for a couple of pieces of Rosice Glass which I think are truely beautiful and evocative of their era.  As they don't come up for sale they may even be a good investment.  That really doesn't matter to me as I enjoy seeing them.

To me that is the crux of the matter.  I buy what I like and enjoy seeing around the place, some things will be a good "investment" but most likely most will not.

[evoman3957]

You've obviously dipped your toe into the sea of coin collecting and already grasped the pitfalls of not sticking to a strategy.  I have 1oz Silver Britannias, 1oz Silver Kookaburras, 1oz Silver Koalas, 1oz Silver American Eagles and 1oz Silver Chinese Pandas........ALL of them, from the very first ones minted; to the latest 2016 coin. There is a fine line between collecting and hording and you need to stay focused, practical, realistic and to plan. I started in 2008, after the crash, as an asset protection exercise and when Silver was £7 an ounce; it's now £14 an ounce, so 100% profit in 8 years isn't bad. That's nearly 13% a year, better than you'd get anywhere else; without taking a big risk. Silver and Gold are always long term investments though, they go up and down; but when volatility and / or uncertainty is the order of the day, they're the commodities that are always resorted to......and are finite resources with an intrinsic value. There's no point in buying a coin with a very high numismatic value, but a low intrinsic value. If paper money ends up hitting the buffers, coin collectors and their families are going to need to eat, just like everybody else, so offering a worthless £10 note, or a 1000 year old coin; to buy food, might not get you much...........but offering Silver or Gold is a different matter. I bet there's plenty of retired Greeks, right now, who wish they'd had a large portion of their savings in Silver or Gold, instead of in Euros. They might have to cut your salaries or pensions, but the value of your Silver & Gold can't be cut; it is what it is. Of course, as you intimated, the mints (and pen makers for that matter) have to play the "Greed" game and try to entice you into buying ever more variations of different coins. Did you know, that the main source of income for Island Nations, such as Tuvalu, Solomon Islands, Cook Islands, Niue and others; is Coinage.......one series after another of limited edition coins, with different themes.........mainly minted by German or Australian Mints, on their behalf. If you use your head, you'll protect what savings you've got and even make more money than any tight fisted financial institution will give you; but if you get carried away, you may end up surrounded by pretty things........that won't be worth much.

[theelench]

Going by what you say above my nephews are doing quite well then with the Britannias, that is good to know.  Apart from that single exception I was never tempted by new issues at all.

I started hoarding coins when we went decimal, just keeping what I could in date runs before they went out of circulation.  Then I started buying the ones I was missing (this was back in the days when it was economic for a retired gentleman to have a kiosk in my local station).  I realised that I needed to specialise when the collection got too heavy to carry easily. 

I traded in all the copper and most of the silver to Coincraft in London and my collection became pre-decimal silver, first year of issue, one uncirculated example of each.  I still have that collection but have gone as far as I can go with it.  The lower denomination Young Head Victorian and William IV I could afford but half-crowns and crowns are out of my price range.  If I remember correctly the plain head Victorias cost about £5000 and £10,000 each and the Gothic issues even more (and that must have been at least ten years ago).

I can see what you're saying about protecting savings especially with interest rates so low but aren't there some drawbacks as well?  For example, you won't get a Britannia for £14, there is the Mint mark up and if you buy through a third party they want a bit too.  The same would apply if you sell, bullion dealers would offer less than the spot price.  I'm sure you know what you're doing but surely bullion prices go down as well as up, just like every other form of investment.  Many other people are doing the same as you, so some of the higher price is because that is inflating the price.  I would be a bit worried that I was buying into an inflating bubble.

[evoman3957]

The bubble already corrected itself ,a few years back, after Silver reached £21 per ounce and Gold flew through the £1000 per ounce barrier ( a good time to sell and re-purchase later ). Also, as Silver & Gold prices are in US Dollars ( as are all commodities ) and as the UK Pound has lost 13% against the Dollar ( 31 year low ) in the last 6 months; that's 13% less you can buy with paper, but your Silver & Gold are still going up. With historically low interest rates, savers have been getting a raw deal now for quite a few years. I don't advocate using all your spare cash to buy Silver & Gold ( rainy day money needs to remain readily available ), but 25% to £30% is a good safety net.......that way; if paper takes a big hit, at least you won't suffer quite so badly. It's a collecting hobby with a duel purpose, but stick to "pure" Silver & Gold; for Silver that's 999 parts in 1000 and Gold it's 24kt. Britannia Coins used to be minted from 958 / 1000 and that was actually called Britannia Silver, last year they eventually changed to 999/ 1000 for the first time in their history.........bringing them in line with all other "Bullion" coins.

By the way, many don't know this, don't buy Silver & Gold in the form of certificates, stating that you own a particular amount ( that's what you get if you go through Banks or Bullion dealers ) WHY ??..........because if all the certificates were called in and people wanted the actual physical Silver & Gold they supposedly owned.......there isn't enough actual physical Silver or Gold in the World to cover the promissory notes / certificates......making it a farce. Buy actual physical Silver or Gold and keep it somewhere secure, like a safety deposit box or a safe.

[theelench]

I will take your word on the market figures. You obviously do your research and know the market. That, I think, is the real secret of making and keeping money. Follow the herd and you most likely won't do either.

[soppysofty]

I tried coin collecting once but.......

The missus kept spending them!

[evoman3957]

You know why they used to name hurricanes after Women.........because when they've gone, they've normally taken the House and the Car.