Nelson Mandela - The last 'great' World leader?

[bookhunter2007]

To some, it could be said NM was a Saint-like inspiration to billions, whose will and determination brought down a Fascist regime and ideology, to others he'll always be a "terrorist" and does not deserve any acclaim whatsoever.

Do you think NM deserves to be considered the last 'great' World leader?

And considering the circumstances at the time, was the ANC’s  'armed struggle' inevitable in order to make any sort of 'progress' in overthrowing apartheid?

[margaret*e]

Same here Charlie, I watch it every week , but tuned out last night .

[bookhunter2007]

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It will be interesting to see what happens now that NM has died as he represented 'hope' for many.

I hope that Jacob Zuma - who has, I've always felt, played lip service to NM and is a very dangerous ignorant man - will not lead the people to a civil war. 

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Yes, that is a worry. Zuma's not exactly popular (justifyably imo), and his or ANC's losses can only lead to gains for the rather nasty EFF.

http://blogs.channel4.com/miller-on-foreign-affairs/mandela-afrikaners-fear-boer-bloodbath/557

[bookhunter2007]

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@charliebird123 wrote:

i normally look forward to watching QT,but last night turned it off.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2523273/BBC-bosses-flew-Labour-stalwart-Peter-Hain-BUSINESS-...

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Just as well there are other channels where you can appreciate "real" celebrities eh?

http://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/The-Round-Table/Reality-TV/m-p/2405094#M111298

[welsh.goddess]

when I was in SA a few years back, I came back with some deep abiding memories.

After visiting Robben Island, and touring the place, I had a much deeper sense of respect for Mandela than I did before. To come out of that place with such a forgiving nature was amazing.  For that I will always consider him a great man.

After spending some time exploring and chatting to locals, I was also cnocerned about SA's future.

All people, black and white, had a deep respect for Mandela, even though he ws no longer in the public eye. His deep commitment to equality was the glue that kept the country running.

There are many issues around corrution with all the main parties, and the groundswell of opinion at that time was fear about what could happen there after they lost Mandela.

[charliebird123]

Bookhunter, and your point is?...

[margaret*e]

No reason why anyone can't watch a variety of programmes if they want to?.

[margaret*e]

Beat me to it there , Charlie .

[charliebird123]

[charliebird123]

We're from the NE Mags, not supposed to do Question time.

[bookhunter2007]

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@marg*e wrote:

No reason why anyone can't watch a variety of programmes if they want to?.

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Of course. If someone prefers to take the Idiocracy route then that's their prerogative. But let's face it, it's not really surprising those who consistently trot out Daily Mail brainfarts about Muslims, Gypsies, and asylum seekers are a bit down on NM.  I'm sure many millions in post-Mandela RSA would love to in the position of whinging at the day's TV schedules. 

Thanks for bringing up the QT special anyway:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03ltbjt/Question_Time_Question_Time_Special/

[margaret*e]

Maybe I need new reading glasses, but the only one I can see with a 'down' on NM is Golden Nugget.

[lost.parrot]

New glasses it is then.

[ed_blackadder_1]

Is Nelson Mandela dead then, I am sure I haven't seen anything about it.

[bookhunter2007]

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@marg*e wrote:

Maybe I need new reading glasses, but the only one I can see with a 'down' on NM is Golden Nugget.

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To be fair, it appears GN actually had their reading glasses on when they read the OP and offered their own 2p, rather than attempt to divert the thread or wait until the Daily Mail told them what to think.

The OP asks if folks thought if "NM deserves to be considered the last 'great' World leader?"  So when there’s no attempt to discuss this or his legacy and the thread is diverted to ‘too much coverage’ in order to create a negative impression of NM, then I think it's a fair assumption they are perhaps "a bit down with NM" - esp if their posting history suggests they are  "a bit down" with ethnic minority groups as hyperlinked in #30..

In the midst of mass-media saturation of bug-eating 'celebs', Nigella Lawson's alleged drug(s) habit(s), and other drivel posing as news 'in the public interest', it does seem a tad bizarre to complain so vehemently about overexposure of an issue that has had and is going to have global consequences. I'm sure Nigella is funny as hell after she's had a couple of tokes on a doobie, but really? News? Likewise, I often see people complain about the lack of good 'role models' in the public eye. If we're at the stage where some are more DISGUSTED about NM getting overexposure rather than D-list celebs then Idiocracy really has arrived.

Anyway, if Nelson Mandela is not the last ‘great’ world leader, then who is?

[right-then-petal]

Churchill

[cee-dee]

I don't think anyone is "down" on NM in any way, many are "down" on the idiotic coverage and having seen how NM performed after his release from jail, I think the man himself would have likewise criticised the coverage.

What's gone on since the old chap died is a bit like the TV adverts which appear so often that after having had the advertised "product" literally rammed in our faces every 15 minutes, all the excessive advertising has done is to make us so heartily sick of the product, it'll ensure that many will never buy it!

As to whether NM was "the last great World Leader", I'd say "No" until some criteria was quoted as to what defines a "great World leader".

[ronnybabes]

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@right-then-petal wrote:

Churchill

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There have been many great World leaders, but Churchill, and Mandella are the latest.

Personally, I plump for Churhill, but do not fail to recognise Mandella's achievements.

They both had to use war/terrorism as justification, and both had peace as a goal.

 

[bookhunter2007]

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@cee-dee wrote:

What's gone on since the old chap died is a bit like the TV adverts which appear so often that after having had the advertised "product" literally rammed in our faces every 15 minutes, all the excessive advertising has done is to make us so heartily sick of the product, it'll ensure that many will never buy it!

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If that’s the case, it will have mainly affected lazy “benefit scroungers” who watch their Plasma TVs all day. Anyway, the news is back to cocaine and celebs again so the whingers can reduce the dosage of their beta-blockers now.

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@cee-dee wrote:

As to whether NM was "the last great World Leader", I'd say "No" until some criteria was quoted as to what defines a "great World leader".

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Most lists and polls seems to place NM in the top 10/15.

http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-most-important-leaders-in-world-history

http://www.omgtoplists.com/history/top-10-greatest-leaders-of-all-time/

Some lists technically include Hitler and Mao as ‘great’ leaders, but I think it’s preferential for greatness to be determined by a leader's positive contributions – the lower the unneccesary body count the better imo.

As Ronny mentions, there's not many of the greatest leaders who don’t have some sort of blood on their hands. Even Gandhi’s has a couple of skeletons in his closet.

Agree that Churchill was a great leader, but I don’t agree he was the ‘last’. Considering the various polls I think it’s difficult to argue NM was not a ‘great’ leader. If anything it’s easier to make the case that someone like Gorbachev was a great leader. Also, I think a good case could be made for Malala Yousafzai possessing the qualities to go on to achieve ‘greater’ things.

[ronnybabes]

I said that Churchill, and Mandella were the latest...

and of the two, I plump for Churchill.

I did not say they were the greatest leaders of all time.

[lost.parrot]

Heck there was no criteria.

I think it's a pity the BBC didn't consult with the odd few RT posters first, regarding coverage.Surely that was the right and proper thing to do, and demonstrates it's communist inflitration. Stands to reason