21-01-2018 9:41 PM
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-no1-2018-jan-feb/bible-guidance-relevant/
A topic that is being offered for discussion this month. Some may find it interesting xxx
11-02-2019 1:22 PM
11-02-2019 1:53 PM
You've researched via JW literature? So, if you're looking for hay in a haystack you're going to find it aren't you?
Now what am I going to be proved wrong about? That the Sun will eventually begin to run out of fuel in about 5 billion years, will expand and consume the inner Planets and the Earth?
It's true that I can't take an old horse to water and make her drink no matter how it's explained to her that it's for her own good.
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
11-02-2019 3:26 PM
11-02-2019 4:16 PM
11-02-2019 4:21 PM
11-02-2019 4:32 PM
I don't think there is any doubt that at some time this Earth is going to fight back..although no-one knows when that will be. But if and when that happens, and if the human race comes to a sticky end, then no-one will escape that because of any sort of belief in A God or Jehovah. Whether it be because of climate change, pandemic or floods or some other such catastrophe...everyone will be at risk...even JW's.
11-02-2019 4:39 PM
11-02-2019 7:22 PM
It's about time all this stupidity was ended never mind the end of the World.
How many times have JWs predicted the end of the World? = More times than you'd believe.
1914 and they believed the Saints would be carried the heaven.
When that didn't come off they predicted 1916 would see Armageddon.
In 1920 they predicted the kingdom of god would be established on Earth by 1925.
Next it was 1938 that they predicted the end was coming.
Then in 1942 they predicted Armageddon was looming.
In 1966 they predicted the end was coming before 2000.
Something must have gone wrong there because by 1966 they were predicting that Man had been ruling the Earth for 6000 years and that by 1975 Christ's kingdom on Earth would be established.
That somehow didn't come off either so by 1984 they were back to predicting the end would come before the end of the 20th century!
What went wrong there? We're 19 years in to the 21st century and we're all still here but oh woe is me, the end's coming............ one day?
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
11-02-2019 8:00 PM
11-02-2019 8:02 PM
And now it's time for some comments about the New World Translation:-
1 "The NWT is a frightful mistranslation,.. Erroneous...pernicious...reprehensible.. If the Jehovah's Witnesses take this translation seriously, they are polytheists."
2/ "It is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest."
3/ "From beginning to end this volume is a shining example of how the Bible should not be translated."
4/ "The NWT is "a shocking mistranslation...Obsolete and incorrect...It is neither scholarly nor reasonable to translate John 1:1 'The Word was a god...' I have never read any New Testament so badly translated as The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of The Greek Scriptures.... it is a distortion of the New Testament. The translators used what J.B. Rotherham had translated in 1893, in modern speech, and changed the readings in scores of passages to state what Jehovah's Witnesses believe and teach. That is a distortion not a translation."
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
11-02-2019 11:57 PM
New World Translation
Definition: A translation of the Holy Scriptures made directly from Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek into modern-day English by a committee of anointed witnesses of Jehovah. These expressed themselves regarding their work as follows: “The translators of this work, who fear and love the Divine Author of the Holy Scriptures, feel toward Him a special responsibility to transmit his thoughts and declarations as accurately as possible. They also feel a responsibility toward the searching readers who depend upon a translation of the inspired Word of the Most High God for their everlasting salvation.” This translation was originally released in sections, from 1950 to 1960. Editions in other languages have been based on the English translation.
On what is the “New World Translation” based?
As a basis for translating the Hebrew Scriptures, the text of Rudolf Kittel’s Biblia Hebraica, editions of 1951-1955, was used. The 1984 revision of the New World Translation benefited from updating in harmony with the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia of 1977. Additionally, the Dead Sea Scrolls and numerous early translations into other languages were consulted. For the Christian Greek Scriptures, the master Greek text of 1881 as prepared by Westcott and Hort was used primarily, but several other master texts were consulted as well as numerous early versions in other languages.
Who were the translators?
When presenting as a gift the publishing rights to their translation, the New World Bible Translation Committee requested that its members remain anonymous. The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania has honored their request. The translators were not seeking prominence for themselves but only to honor the Divine Author of the Holy Scriptures.
Over the years other translation committees have taken a similar view. For example, the jacket of the Reference Edition (1971) of the New American Standard Bible states: “We have not used any scholar’s name for reference or recommendations because it is our belief God’s Word should stand on its merits.”
Is it really a scholarly translation?
Since the translators have chosen to remain anonymous, the question cannot here be answered in terms of their educational background. The translation must be appraised on its own merits.
What kind of translation is this? For one thing, it is an accurate, largely literal translation from the original languages. It is not a loose paraphrase, in which the translators leave out details that they consider unimportant and add ideas that they believe will be helpful. As an aid to students, a number of editions provide extensive footnotes showing variant readings where expressions can legitimately be rendered in more than one way, also a listing of the specific ancient manuscripts on which certain renderings are based.
Some verses may not read the same as what a person is accustomed to. Which rendering is right? Readers are invited to examine manuscript support cited in footnotes of the Reference edition of the New World Translation, read explanations given in the appendix, and compare the rendering with a variety of other translations. They will generally find that some other translators have also seen the need to express the matter in a similar manner.
Why is the name Jehovah used in the Christian Greek Scriptures?
It should be noted that the New World Translation is not the only Bible that does this. The divine name appears in translations of the Christian Greek Scriptures into Hebrew, in passages where quotations are made directly from the inspired Hebrew Scriptures. The Emphatic Diaglott (1864) contains the name Jehovah 18 times. Versions of the Christian Greek Scriptures in at least 38 other languages also use a vernacular form of the divine name.
The emphasis that Jesus Christ put on the name of his Father indicates that he personally used it freely. (Matt. 6:9; John 17:6, 26) According to Jerome of the fourth century C.E., the apostle Matthew wrote his Gospel first in Hebrew, and that Gospel makes numerous quotations of passages from the Hebrew Scriptures that contain the divine name. Others of the Christian Greek Scripture writers quoted from the Greek Septuagint (a translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek, begun about 280 B.C.E.), early copies of which contained the divine name in Hebrew characters, as shown by actual fragments that have been preserved.
Professor George Howard of the University of Georgia wrote: “Since the Tetragram [four Hebrew letters for the divine name] was still written in the copies of the Greek Bible which made up the Scriptures of the early church, it is reasonable to believe that the N[ew] T[estament] writers, when quoting from Scripture, preserved the Tetragram within the biblical text.”—Journal of Biblical Literature, March 1977, p. 77.
Why are some verses apparently missing?
Those verses, found in some translations, are not in the oldest available Bible manuscripts. Comparison with other modern translations, such as The New English Bible and the Catholic Jerusalem Bible, shows that other translators have also recognized that the verses in question do not belong in the Bible. In some instances, they were taken from another part of the Bible and added to the text being copied by a scribe.
If Someone Says—
‘You have your own Bible’
You might reply: ‘Which translation of the Bible do you have? Is it . . . (list several in your language)? There are many translations, you know.’ Then perhaps add: ‘I’m glad to use whatever translation you prefer. But you may be interested in knowing why I especially like the New World Translation. It is because of its modern, understandable language, also because the translators held so closely to what is in the original Bible languages.’
Or you could say: ‘What you say makes me feel that you must have a Bible in your home. What translation of the Bible do you use? . . . Would you be willing to get it?’ Then perhaps add: ‘For all of us, regardless of which translation we use, at John 17:3 Jesus stressed the important thing to keep in mind, as you can see here in your own Bible. . . .
’
Another possibility: ‘There are many translations of the Bible. Our Society encourages the use of a variety of them in order to make comparisons and to help students to grasp the real sense of the Scriptures. As you may know, the Bible was originally written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. So we appreciate what translators have done to put it into our language. Which Bible translation do you use?’
An additional suggestion: ‘Evidently you are a person who loves God’s Word. So I am sure you would be interested in knowing what one of the big differences is between the New World Translation and other versions. It involves the name of the most important person spoken of in the Scriptures. Do you know who that is?’ Then perhaps add: (1) ‘Did you know that his personal name appears in the Bible in the original Hebrew some 7,000 times—more than any other name?’ (2) ‘What difference does it make whether we use the personal name of God or not? Well, do you have any really close friends whose name you do not know? . . . If we want a personal relationship with God, knowing his name is an important start. Notice what Jesus said at John 17:3, 6. (Ps. 83:18)
12-02-2019 12:16 AM - edited 12-02-2019 12:18 AM
All garbage because not only have many, many complete bible verses been removed but many have been altered like this one:-
The King John version of 1John 5:7 is:-
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
The NWT is:-
For there are three witness bearers: the spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
12-02-2019 12:29 AM
We have a book "Reasoning from the Scriptures"
Bible Translations Referred to in This Book
Unless otherwise indicated, Scripture quotations are from the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, 1984 edition (NW). Explanations of the abbreviations used to designate other translations of the Bible are provided below:
AS - American Standard Version (1901; as printed in 1944), American Revision Committee.
AT - The Bible—An American Translation (1935), J. M. Powis Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed.
By - The Bible in Living English (published in 1972), Steven T. Byington.
CBW - The New Testament—A Translation in the Language of the People (1937; as printed in 1950), Charles B. Williams.
CC - The New Testament (1941; as printed in 1947), Confraternity of Christian Doctrine Revision.
CKW - The New Testament—A New Translation in Plain English (1963), Charles K. Williams.
Da - The ‘Holy Scriptures’ (1882; as printed in 1949), J. N. Darby.
Dy - Catholic Challoner-Douay Version (1750; as printed in 1941).
ED - The Emphatic Diaglott (1864; as printed in 1942), Benjamin Wilson.
Int - The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures (1969).
JB - The Jerusalem Bible (1966), Alexander Jones, general editor.
JP - The Holy Scriptures According to the Masoretic Text (1917), Jewish Publication Society of America.
KJ - King James Version (1611; as printed in 1942).
Kx - The Holy Bible (1954; as printed in 1956), Ronald A. Knox.
LEF - The Christian’s Bible—New Testament (1928), George N. LeFevre.
LXX - Greek Septuagint Version.
Mo - A New Translation of the Bible (1934), James Moffatt.
NAB - The New American Bible, Saint Joseph Edition (1970).
NE - The New English Bible (1970).
NTIV - The New Testament in an Improved Version (1808), published in London.
Ro - The Emphasised Bible (1897), Joseph B. Rotherham.
RS - Revised Standard Version, Second Edition (1971).
Sd - The Authentic New Testament (1958), Hugh J. Schonfield.
SE - The Simple English Bible—New Testament, American Edition (1981).
TC - The Twentieth Century New Testament, Revised Edition (1904).
TEV - Good News Bible—Today’s English Version (1976).We - The New Testament in Modern Speech (1929; as printed in 1944), Richard F. Weymouth.
Yg - The Holy Bible, Revised Edition (1887), Robert Young
on
12-02-2019
12:50 AM
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12-02-2019
11:00 AM
by
kh-enas
Why are Jehovah’s Witnesses persecuted and spoken against?
Jesus said: “If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, on this account the world hates you.” (John 15:18, 19; see also 1 Peter 4:3, 4.) The Bible shows that the whole world lies under Satan’s control; he is the principal instigator of the persecution.—1 John 5:19; Rev. 12:17.
Jesus also told his disciples: “You will be objects of hatred by all people on account of my name.” (Mark 13:13) The word “name” here means what Jesus officially is, the Messianic King.
12-02-2019 9:13 AM
The only controller of me, is me!
All those silly C & Ps are only a JW attempt to blind people to the truth of the matter and that is that the JW cult has utmost control over it's members to the point where they're completely brainwashed to anything else.
As ever, you can ask a question or point out a mistake or difference and they won't answer the question raised or posed, they'll deflect to something else.
They will pick and choose to suit themselves and twist things to their own agenda.
You could take a JW to a dark Blue wall and if it suited them, they'd say the wall was Black and no amount of reasoning would convince them otherwise.
Their attitude is "You're all wrong, we're the only ones that're right.... you'll see.... one day."
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
12-02-2019 9:41 AM
Those overly long C&Ps have the opposite effect to which they’re intended.
Theyre off putting and make people turn away from them without ever trying to read them.
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12-02-2019
11:19 AM
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12-02-2019
11:35 AM
by
kh-daniel
@margaret*e wrote:
Those overly long C&Ps have the opposite effect to which they’re intended.
Theyre off putting and make people turn away from them without ever trying to read them.
Morning Margarete,
Thank you, I accept what you are saying.😐 I'm sorry xxx
12-02-2019 11:30 AM
I think the words of the JW movement are clearly false and that they're trotting out the age old "You're all wrong except us".
You've made no explanations. Just explain in your own words the alterations to 1 John 5:7.
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
12-02-2019 9:43 PM
@cee-dee wrote:
You've made no explanations. Just explain in your own words the alterations to 1 John 5:7.
Trinity doctrine: We don't believe the trinity doctrine to be correct, if you read the original manuscripts it does not teach the trinity (3 gods in one)
Less than 300 years after the Bible was completed, a Trinitarian writer added to 1 John 5:7 the words (King James Version possibly others I haven't checked this time) “in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” Clearly a case of a Trinitarian adding to promote a false doctrine one that he feels should be added and changing the teaching of the Bible (Gods Word) disobeying Gods instruction not to add omit or change. That statement did not appear in the original text. “From the sixth century onwards,” notes Bible scholar Bruce Metzger, those words were “found more and more frequently in manuscripts of the Old Latin and of the [Latin] Vulgate.”
a C&P bit for clarification.
One of the differences was at 1 John 5:7. To support the unscriptural teaching of the Trinity, some spurious words known as the comma Johanneum had been added to the Vulgate. They read: “In heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” However, Erasmus excluded those words from his first two editions of the New Testament because none of the Greek manuscripts he consulted contained them. He was later pressured by the church to include them in his third edition
Consider another example. In the 19th century, almost all Bible translations had a spurious Trinitarian addition at 1 John 5:7. However, this addition does not appear in the oldest Greek manuscripts. Neither does it appear in the Pe**bleep**ta, thus proving that the addition at 1 John 5:7 is indeed a corruption of the Bible text.
New World translation.
As I HAVE explained before, this translation is as near to the original manuscripts and from the original languages they were written in, keeping the written word and meaning as accurate as possible. This is done with the help of many different people and their knowledge of early language, interpreters, translators and bible scholars etc. a lot of painstaking research time and effort and cross reference goes into it, it is not just some idea whipped up to confuse control or oppress.
NWT - the specific scripture is focusing more on Jesus, his water baptismbeing approved by God and shedding of blood in sacrifice all for one purpose, and whoever believes in and follows Jesus example is Believing in and obedient to God. This clearly shows 3 separate entities, God the father, Jesus his son and Gods holy spirit or actions force, where KJV is adding an extra doctrine that there is only 1 entity made up with 3 parts God the father God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. (that in itself is contradictory because in other parts it talks about Jesus being Gods son)
You have to read each translation from the beginning 5:1 onwards to get the whole meaning. But in the King James version the trinity slant has been added by a trinitarian writer and it was not originally there.
NWT, focuses on a simplified way for everyone young, old, rich, poor, educated or not so educated (me lol) to understand it and come to know God.
That is my explanation mainly in my own words, so even if you don't agree with it (your right to choose) it is an explanation all the same. I have many times answered questions you have raised, if you don't accept them as correct that is up to you but they have been answered all the same.
One observation regarding C&P and your reaction concerning them is, I think you dislike them because you find them much harder to dispute with solid reasoning and it makes you angry because you are less able to run rings around me being less articulate with the english language. so you have to resort more to discrediting via disrespectful means.
Also that is why I C&P a lot because I know the answer is a reliable one based on scripture and not on my own interpretation.
12-02-2019 10:24 PM
Your own words? I think not. More long C & P.
You keep harking back to "original texts" but there were so many. JW's have chosen the ones which suit their agenda, as ever. The original bible would have been in old Hebrew, Aramaic and/or a mixture of that and Hebrew. The Greek texts were a translation and that's why there's so many which are not all the same.
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.