It's all Greek to me?

[cee-dee]

So Greece owes billions of €uro to several lenders, it didn't make it's June payment of €1.6 billion to the IMF and it now expects to be lent more money?

What have they done with all that money? Frittered it away on........ what? Where's it gone?

If you and I owed substantial sums to various lenders and didn't make repayments as agreed, what would the lenders say if we said we couldn't pay what we owe and asked to be lent more?

[******lynda******]

I never wanted UK in the EU but am eternally grateful we never adopted the euro. The rules were changed after our refusal to adopt the euro, so anyone wanting to join the EU after us was obliged to use the Euro. Our currency design has been changed to resemble the euro notes and I was afraid that was in expectation of moving to the euro some day. But then I did not expect the euro to survive.
I think the Greeks should go back to the drachma. I think some of the people there see the EU as a comfort blanket, but they need to take charge of their own economy again and bite the bullets of taxation if they want public services. Nothing is going to be easy but in the longer term, I believe it would be the proper course to take.

[joamur_gosof]

I am on the complete opposite angle here lynda...I wanted so much to be part of Europe and choose my home and ,find work and be welcome and one currency to go home with. 

BB Bliar and his rush to sign up but not to the maasyricht treaty grinds my gears no end as that left us in out in out .....Out ...all wrong,....the gov of ours hohoho wanted a say in ruling half the world ,but wanted the people of the country with zero imput..

thats how I see things anyway..I will gladly read why thats different and fully take it onboard if it makes sense why we did not just join.

Apologies as not very greeky ...sorry

[astrologica]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai43B588_co&sns=em...........marvellous...every word the truth.

[******lynda******]

Joining the European community led to the destruction of our fishing industry..the newly introduced quotas gave foreign boats more of our fish than we were allowed, plus they would keep undersized fish , take them home and sell them back to us, while we had to throw undersized fish back...and because they filled our markets with undersized fish, we had to throw back our legal fish too.

We were not 100% efficient in milk production...imported some but France wanted us to import more from them, so we got quotas that cut our home production forcing us to import from mainland Europe. I believe every country should support itself in agriculture as much as it can and sell surplus, only import shortfall. Goes for other products too. Our dairies closed, our creameries closed our dependency increased.
With the euro, we would be tied to monetary policy. But one size does not fit all. It helps economies to be able to devalue, set interest rates etc according to their own needs. We see the result of a single rate and it will destroy the EU as it stands now.
In my mind, a world sized country, with one currency and everyone playing on a level field and sending resources where they are most needed sounds good. But things are different in reality. Human nature means everyone is I it for themselves, first and foremost. Help to the weaker is not as part of one state but as a loan. But equally, there are those who saw joining as an easy route to money to squander.

I would leave completely, set up free trade agreements and see no reason why we can't have free movement agreements too. And defence agreement..benefits to all, but until the leaders and rule makers and officials of the EU show they can at least provide audited books and that they are not just riding a gravy train for their own personal benefit, I would not want to be part of a machine that decrees bananas can't be bent, etc lol

Over simplified..writing this in tiny box on iPad ruins thought process,

[******lynda******]

I want to say, I have no problem with people moving about for work. My mother came from Europe, my oh is descended from immigrants, my brother lives and works in mainland Europe..has done for 30 years. If Nicola gets her way, I will leave Scotland.

[joamur_gosof]

thanks lynda, A sound argument and it was from the people of the world unite angle that I wanted...of course in plain english as you put it it was a load of bullies and crooks and has been virtually from the start.

I have to smile when I see nigel in europe and even worse I almost always agree with him .thanks astro 🙂

[******lynda******]

As I said in my post, ideally I would go for people of the world uniting. But While it may have worked for Benelux, the more countries that are in, the more unworkable it becomes, unless it is run as a single country.
The EU will split up, sooner or later. All through history small units have got together to make bigger ones...Germany and France, USSR, Yugoslavia as examples. Sooner or later parts of the big unit begin to feel they could do better on their own and break away, for whatever reason.

[******lynda******]

Crooks indeed. We obeyed the rules..in fishing for example, we had fishery officers monitoring our catches all round the coast. The E U countries had very few FOs and they let their own do as they wanted, while monitoring us.

[cee-dee]

Those Europeans don't like us British and a good illustration of this is an old joke (which has several versions) :-

At Berlin airport a Luftansa pilot radioed air traffic control with a question. He spoke German. Control answered him and said that he must speak English as that was the international language for air traffic control.

The Luftanza pilot said " I am German pilot in a German aircraft at a German airport. Why must I speak English?"

Before air traffic could answer, a perfect British voice from a BOAC pilot came over the radio......."because WE won the war old boy."

The German pilot answered "You might haff vun ze vor, but ve shall vin ze peace"......

Think about it? The way the Eurocrats are going, that's gonna happen!

[lightblueberet]

On another site, a thread which has driven me nuts...

"Beware of Greeks bearing gifts"

In our present predicament, that's one of our many problems...We can't afford to buy *** gifts anymore !!!

[merehazle]

Yes, things will rebound on us all.   And somethings already have.

Why was it considered a ''good thing'' to have immigrants from EU countries? Was it because nearly all of them come from nations that have cultures fashioned in the last century, or for some even in the last half century, by fascist/feudal governments and/or forces of occupation and that they will therefore find the increasing totalitarianism of the EU and it's poodles in Westminster more acceptable, far more than the obstreperous native Brits who with their history have an annoying habit of loving freedom from oppression and so, in time, as the proportion of newcomers rise, the population and it's culture will be so much more amenable to the dictatorial feudal fourth European/ Frankish empire envisaged by our masters?

Twice as many EU immigrants are claiming unemployment benefits in UK than vice versa, new research shows. Around 30,000 Britons are claiming unemployment benefits abroad, research - finds far less than the 65,000 EU citizens doing so in UK.

[malacandran]

Nothing we can do about it, at present.

We all feel a sense of frustration about what's happening to our country.  But the "masters" are in charge.  Let's hope they eventually push 

things so far, that a real revolt occurs.

[joamur_gosof]

People of the world unite....well there it is ,there is lots people can do about it if that is what they want.

If they do not want that then boom boom shake the room ...find your own way out 🙂

[merehazle]

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@malacandran wrote:

Nothing we can do about it, at present.

We all feel a sense of frustration about what's happening to our country.  But the "masters" are in charge.  Let's hope they eventually push 

things so far, that a real revolt occurs.

---

Well...what about the PAST? Isn't it about what we should not have done?  I don't know whether you actually viewed the late Robin Cooks Resignation Speech? You can see it right now.  And it pays to listen very carefully. (it's about 10- minutes long).

Goggle, these words ''Robin Cooks Resignation speech'' And see what he wanted then.  The House actually applauded him.  Well it's against protocol to applaud. And yet they still went ahead with their damn war.

They must have been influenced by Blair, and Bush. I know I was sickened by Blair's repetition of ''WEAPONS OF MASS DISTRUCTION''  I think he got sick of saying that himself. 

Just think how wonderful it might be now had that ''illegal'' war not happened.  And heaven help us all as we think what on earth may come?  

[cee-dee]

Deadline, deadline, deadline Saturday with a final deadline for a meeting on Sunday 12th July.

The meeting's cancelled. No it's not, it's on for 3pm BST but "a deal won't be done today" according to one Minister?????

I think it'll end up with more of this:-

[astrologica]

Mere...I have listened to Robin Cook's speech many times, and agree that it was a good speech. And indeed the Iraq war was a big mistake for us, pushed for as it was by the two B's. But would things be perfect if we had not gone to war in Iraq? I don't think so....a huge part of the problems our country has are caused by our membership of the EU. And the way that that organisation is treating Greece at the moment just shows that they have no qualms about grinding a people or country in the dust just to get their way. In their eyes, the EU has to prevail, along with their grand master plan. So our involvement in the Iraq war, whilst it was a monumental folly and a cause of many undesirable outcomes for us, it was just one of many factors that puts us all where we are today. I take my hat off to the Greek people for trying to stand up to them....but I fear they will be bought off again, thus postponing the inevitable tragic downfall.

[merehazle]

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@astrologica wrote:
Mere...I have listened to Robin Cook's speech many times, and agree that it was a good speech. And indeed the Iraq war was a big mistake for us, pushed for as it was by the two B's. But would things be perfect if we had not gone to war in Iraq? I don't think so....a huge part of the problems our country has are caused by our membership of the EU. And the way that that organisation is treating Greece at the moment just shows that they have no qualms about grinding a people or country in the dust just to get their way. In their eyes, the EU has to prevail, along with their grand master plan. So our involvement in the Iraq war, whilst it was a monumental folly and a cause of many undesirable outcomes for us, it was just one of many factors that puts us all where we are today. I take my hat off to the Greek people for trying to stand up to them....but I fear they will be bought off again, thus postponing the inevitable tragic downfall.

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Yes astro. Possible alternative histories are a fascinating thing to ponder on, then the key question should be how come so many apparently clever people in Washington and London got things so badly wrong in their handling of Iraq? The lesson of history should have suggested that invasion and occupation of another country was likely to be met with some resistance. Britain's experiences in Iraq in the 1920s should have taught London something at least.

With Saddam in power things of course would not have been perfect. Well he was their leader, and it was their country. How much better would the world be? For a start, many tens of thousands of ordinary Iraqis would still be alive, as would several thousand troops from coalition countries. The terrorists born from resulting anger and grief would not be about their deadly work. Muslims worldwide would not have been provoked to take a stand against all things Western.

Another way of looking at it would be to speculate how big a dent in global poverty we could have made if we'd have spent that money on helping poorer parts of the world rather than blowing innocent people up. But contemplating that thought is just making me want to cry.

As for Blair and Bush - well I guess if you're responsible for the deaths oh hundreds of thousands of innocent people it's nice to assume that they would have died anyway,  but it sets a pretty dodgy precedent for public morality, not to mention that on the evidence, they were just plain WRONG.   We got over Hitler. How the hell do we get over this? That's a big difference.

Oh, probably be back with tea and biscuits tonight  

[tommy.irene]

The Greece Bailout Explained................. It is a slow day in a little Greek Village. The rain is beating down and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit. On this particular day a rich German tourist is driving through the village, stops at the local hotel and lays a €100 note on the desk, telling the hotel owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night. The owner gives him some keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, the hotelier grabs the €100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. The butcher takes the €100 note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer. The pig farmer takes the €100 note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel. The guy at the Farmers' Co-op takes the €100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the taverna. The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him "services" on credit. The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the €100 note. The hotel proprietor then places the €100 note back on the counter so the rich traveller will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveller comes down the stairs, picks up the €100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money, and leaves town. No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole village is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism. And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is how the Greek bailout package works!!

[cee-dee]

It's going to fail:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33578778

It's already failed? How on earth are they gonna pay back what they owe, what fools thought it was a good idea to lend them that much and why are they even considering lending them any more?

[tommy.irene]

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@cee-dee wrote:

It's going to fail:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33578778

It's already failed? How on earth are they gonna pay back what they owe, what fools thought it was a good idea to lend them that much and why are they even considering lending them any more?

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I agree.. if you lend me £50,000 and i didnt pay it back would you lend me more.