It's all Greek to me?

[cee-dee]

So Greece owes billions of €uro to several lenders, it didn't make it's June payment of €1.6 billion to the IMF and it now expects to be lent more money?

What have they done with all that money? Frittered it away on........ what? Where's it gone?

If you and I owed substantial sums to various lenders and didn't make repayments as agreed, what would the lenders say if we said we couldn't pay what we owe and asked to be lent more?

[right-then-petal]

A Few Years Ago There Was An Add

You Can Now Borrow Enough Money To Get You Completly Out Of Dept

[cee-dee]

Dept? You mean DEBT?

[right-then-petal]

Oh Yes Debt.

[******lynda******]

Frittered away? In a way. The Greeks don't pay taxes, so the money went on running the country.
So basically they wanted a standard of living paid for by the taxpayers in the rest of the EU.
They owe the most to Germany. I think the next highest is France. They owe us too. If a person gets in debt, no one wants to lend more if they cannot make repayments.
The frightening thing is we were close...again...to being where Greece is, and it is only a policy of cutting spending that kept the lenders prepared to keep lending to us, when there was no money left.

[aernethril]

I'm not sure about this, but I believe a load of the last loan was used to be able to make subsequent payments and if so, would be something that is not allowed in this country at all.

eg - some years back when I knew I was going to have difficulties repaying a personal loan after the rug was pulled from under my life, I responsibly contacted the bank, explained and asked if I could adjust the loan to an extended period to reduce the monthly payments.

Oh no - they couldn't do that at all, and neither could they set up a new loan for the same sum (paying off the old loan), spread over a longer term either.

BUT - what they could do was set up a new loan for a much higher amount, paying off the old loan and then I could use the extra money to then make my monthly payments, which would of course be even higher than they were at the current rate which I was going to struggle with.

So - an even higher loan to pay off a smaller loan and use the loan to pay the loan.

It's just a nasty trap - whether for an individual or for a country and frankly, even if Greece took millions in taxes from their home-grown magnates, they's still be up to their necks in the loan and have no way to turn the country around as their economy and ability to grow is stunted.

I don't know what the answer is but bearing in mind that Greece was effectively enouraged into the EU when they were so ill prepared and unready to manage financially for starters, I don't feel they should be bearing the blame entirely.

Whatever they decide today, it's going to rebound on us all - but sadly I don't see any financial institution being any more responsible or capable of honest dealings at any level.

[******lynda******]

2012 figures in graphics

http://demonocracy.info/infographics/eu/debt_greek/debt_greek.html

In recent times most of the money was going to try and pay debts, some but the debt is so vast, they will never be able to pay it

[******lynda******]

Greece owes around €56bn to Germany, €42bn to France, €37bn to Italy, and €25bn to Spain.

The Greek government also owes private investors in the country around €39bn, and another €120bn to institutions including Greek banks.
Greece's debt mountain is 180pc of its GDP.

[upthecreekyetagain]

---

@right-then-petal wrote:

A Few Years Ago There Was An Add

You Can Now Borrow Enough Money To Get You Completly Out Of Dept

---

There was also a quote from John Keynes, "If you owe your bank a hundred pounds, you have a problem.  But if you owe a million, it has".

Greece is very much in the latter position.  The ones with the problem are Greece's creditors.  Play hardball and yes Greece will suffer but their creditors can say goodbye to their money. 

[******lynda******]

Greece should never have been allowed to join the EU and most ordinary people could see that they were not fulfilling the entry requirements. I think much of the debt is going to have to be written off, if Greece is ever to get on its feet. They need to leave the eurozone, because they cannot afford to be tied to the monetary policy.

[aernethril]

I agree and I think it should have been done a long time ago instead of proloning and increasing the problem for everyone.

[******lynda******]

Yes, Petal. John Keynes hit the nail on the head. My OH loves that quote.

[******lynda******]

Yes, the sooner the better. I don't understand either why they left it so long. I am just grateful we never joined the euro.

[aernethril]

Just found this in the Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11718775/Greece-euro-referendum-day-results-live.html

The post at 11:20 makes for some very interesting reading.

[******lynda******]

Thanks. I have read it, ...interesting.

[**bustysinclaire**]

Another proficy from the Bible CD,  (and it is not too far away in the furture either) that money will become worthless bits of paper and it will be thrown away in the streets.  

[0-anthony-0]

A good starting point to comprehend the nature of money is fractional-reserve banking

Whatever anybody says. money is an invention of man and imagining that there is not enough money to pay for the essentials needed for everyone to live with dignity equally, allowing deprivation unnecessarily, is basically a mental health issue.

Greece wasn't able to meet an IMF payment and what's occurred? night still follows day, the planet turns on it's axis, water still falls from the sky and plant life grows in the soil.

Those with, demand that those without are deprived of that which is essentially needed to live with dignity equally, money.

One solution

[joe_bloggs*]

---

@0-anthony-0 wrote:

A good starting point to comprehend the nature of money is fractional-reserve banking

Whatever anybody says. money is an invention of man and imagining that there is not enough money to pay for the essentials needed for everyone to live with dignity equally, allowing deprivation unnecessarily, is basically a mental health issue.

Greece wasn't able to meet an IMF payment and what's occurred? night still follows day, the planet turns on it's axis, water still falls from the sky and plant life grows in the soil.

Those with, demand that those without are deprived of that which is essentially needed to live with dignity equally, money.

One solution

Very true,one of the greatest economists of the last century J. K Galbraith said:

"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled"

Bit similar to those who keep repeating the tory mantra "The UK could have ended up like Greece" of course that is totally false as a sovereign country issuing its own currency that could never happen,in fact it won't surprise me if Osborne mentions it again in his forthcoming budget !

-

[astrologica]

Greece had to be allowed to join the EU..and the Euro. It is all part of the Master plan. The United States of Europe. Only when it becomes a Federation, there will be no different countries, just one big country, much like the United States of America. This is why, when countries voted whether to join the EU or not, a negative vote was swept aside, and the vote held again and again until the 'correct' result was achieved. So Greece will not be allowed to leave, it would go against the Master Plan.
Next part of the plan is for Turkey to join. Lynda is probably right...the debt will be written off. Also, all those migrants at Calais will be given an amnesty and allowed to go to whatever country they want.
Greece managed perfectly well as a country...until they joined the EU and the Euro.

[aernethril]

Well it appears that the No vote may have the edge, so if it does go to a decision to withdraw, then I don't see how they're going to be persuaded to ignore their own referendum.