Is this the end?

[fallen-archie]

There is a significant change happeining across Britain, no it's nothng to do with the referendum, nothing to do with the euro football, this is far more significant and driven by certain entrepreneurs like Mark Zuckerberg, politicians like George Osborne and Jeremy Corbyn and Jounalists like Andrew marr and Robert Peston. Their behaviour strikes at the very heart of our society and what we the British stand for. I refer of course to the growing desire indeed compulsion in some parts to Dress Down. The Humble silk tie, the tailored suit, Shoes that fit, Shorts, Loafers, hoodies. What on earth is happening to us. Elasticated waste bands kid us into believing we arew still the same waste size, Socks being abandoned, Beards making a comeback as the price of razor blades soar and no time is allowed to ablute properly. Whilst waiting at Edinburgh Waverley station recently I observed people and their choice of attire, it was quite bizarre, in many cases I could barely imagine the kind of shop this clothing had been purchased from. Of course we are talking personal preference here and I'm not saying that is wrong but I do question the appropriateness of some of the choices when working. My own business has recently held a referendum on whether Head office staff should be allowed to dress down, they had a dry run and it looked like a right rag bag of individuals with no professionalism whatsoever. Zuckerberg turns up to Black Tie dinners in his jeans and hoody. So is this a natural progression and healthy or is it just bone idleness and another sign that all forms of self discipline are in decline.

[cee-dee]

It's slovenly. Really, who'd employ people dressed like that? If they're slovenly dressed wouldn't they be slovenly at their work?

[Anonymous]

I do my best work with my dressing gown on.

[fallen-archie]

You are nearly there Harry 

[Anonymous]

[artful_dodgings]

I think it's the proliferation of shops like Sports Direct, JD Sports, etc, etc. Everyone wants to look like they've just come out of the Gym, or off the football field. Walk past the doors of these two outfitters, and you can feel the static from the Bri-nylon, nylon, lycra, and the man-made fibres. I remember a time when if you saw someone in the street wearing a particular item of clothing that caught your eye, you almost stopped them and asked where they got it, because chances are you'd never see it again. It was more or less unique, due to the fact that there was a myriad of little independent boutiques selling individual clothes. Now if you buy something, chances are you'll meet yourself on every street corner, because someone is wearing the same thing. There's no individuality any more. Everyone is a clone.

Also the quality of garments has deteriorated. To wit: check out the trousers in somewhere like M&S, Debenhams, Next - a fairly decent trio of establishments - you could spit through them. Tacky materials, badly assembled, and similar to those that you can purchase in Matalan...for quids cheaper it has to be said. Anyone wearing a suit now, they've either been to a funeral, or they are going to a wedding. That said mind you, I've seen some scruffs at both of these events ! Style out, sloppiness in.

Although I can't ever visualise you following this trend, FA. I see you in a smartly tailored double-breasted two piece, with co-ordinated shirt and tie (bow ?), or a casual Harris Tweed jacket, cord slacks, set off with a moleskin waistcoat, Tattershall check shirt, and complimented with a 'Fox & Hound' print cravat. I imagine you to be very neat, tidy, and dapper, with a  centre parting in your Brylcreemed hair, and neatly trimmed pencil moustache. Not dissimilar to Hercule Poirot.

*cough*

[fallen-archie]

Gawdstrewth Daffers, I have visions of Nicholas Parsons or Leslie Philips (Shudders with angst) In the end though I plumped for this chap,

Top Hole and quite the Dandy but alas nothing like me 

[astrologica]

There are some real scruffs about these days! I rather like the style of Michael Portillo...always nicely turned out, but with a little touch of eccentricity. And he's not afraid to wear a pink shirt either. The current trend for facial hair is a bit childish...seems every man has to be a sheep and prove he can sprout a bit of hair on his chin! I do sometimes wonder what is lurking in those beards. I think everyone should wear whatever they like, providing they are clean and well scrubbed, with well tended hair.....and , in a man, clean shaven.

[astrologica]

The gentleman in the picture is Terry Thomas...and it does look like he's wearing a knitted waistcoat!! Now you'll all want one....do I have to resurrect my knitting pins?😀

[fallen-archie]

I too love a little eccentricity, but alas it too is on the decline. Of Course a few remain on here including Artful Dodgem, for those unfamiliar with his streetwear here is a view of him ready for a night out in Kirkudbright.

[fallen-archie]

Even Boris Johnson has his own range for day wear.

[littleme61_6]

Standards have changed for sure over the years. A lot of Individuality seems long gone with many dressing the same. Sportswear seems to be the choice, as with wearing trainers. 

I have never really followed fashion as such - meaning designer labels - Mainly I dress smartly when I go out. Casual when pottering around at home. What I still can't get used to seeing is many dressed so slovenly when visiting the doctors, and outpatient departments. I just feel more of an effort should have been made. 

[5129frederick]

I really rue the demise of the pin striped suit the bowler hat and the rolled up umbrella.  It didn't matter a fig whether you were the bank manager, the clerk or even the office wallah, you looked the part.  Unfortunately then came the era where it was deemed clever to jeer at anything that was remotely "British".  That classic "Class" script with John Cleese/Ronnie Corbett "I know my place" really started it.  That's why I can't stand Richard Branson.  I have never once seen him wear a tie.

Whereas "Sir" came into the classroom wearing the mandatory suit, shirt and tie and every automatically stood up and said "Good morning, Sir" all facing the front of course, times changed out of all recognition.  In my daughter's class it was very much an open forum with four desks facing each other and Sir coming in casually dressed with a roll neck swearer, long hair and jeans, saying "Hi, my name's John."  If John is one of the lads, who is their mentor?  To whom can they look up to?  

I wouldn't dream of entering a church without a conservative shirt and tie but now there is a growing trend to discard the suit, shirt and tie and everything else.  I've seen people come into church wearing jeans - it's just not on.  One thing I totally opposed was introduced by my company - every Friday was a dress down day.  I refused point blank to participate.  You expect your boss to dress appropriately.  If you're attending a meeting and somebody comes in wearing a pair of Levi's and a black T-shirt you'd take a very dim view.

[cee-dee]

[5129frederick]

 Like it!

[al**bear]

Edinburgh has always been a bit Avant-garde, a very large Student population and artists add into this

Scruffy is the new chic

But loads of people simply don't care anymore

[theelench]

Wouldn't it be true to say that the adoption of the suit and tie as conventional business attire is an aberation caused by the extraordinary events of the 20th century  .The rapid growth of male clerical work coupled with the first and second world wars. 

For the first time millions of men had been in uniform and on returning to "civvy street" continued with their military uniformity.  If you look at pictures of Victorian or earlier working life men dressed more in keeping with changing fashions to whatever degree that they could afford it, which is what's happening now.  That attitude is what is returning, a return to a more diverse attitude to dress not a break-down of conventional attitudes.  Today it's sportswear, next year it could be kilts or togas.

Women weren't called up for military service in the huge numbers that men were and never adopted this attitude.  They have never accepted the need for a working uniform and have continued to turn up in whatever is the fashion of the time.

Someone above mentioned how they could meet themselves on any street corner dressed in the same mass produced clothes but how does that differ from the time when men all wore a bowler and pin stripe?  Even the bowler hat was a hold over from a more casual attitude.  At the time conventional business wear was a frock coat and top hat, the bowler was casual wear for horse riding.

It's the break-down of 20th century conformity not a descent to scruffyness.  So long as what's worn is clean it doesn't reflect at all  on a persons character or on their ability to do their job.  The example of Zuckerman in jeans and hoody serves to prove the point.

[cee-dee]

Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide,
No escape from reality.

[theelench]

My apologies for interupting, didn't realise this was a private thread.

[fallen-archie]

Not a private thread, it's just a case of having too few posters to enable continuity. Three posts in a day on the same thread is busy:)
I did like your take on the situation and it all makes sense. All I would take issue with is the suggestion, if you can call it that, that the breakdown in a disciplined approach to certain aspects of life is ok. You join a golf club and In so doing you accept the club rules yet there are always those who challenge them wanting to dress down, no rules no structure, no structure things start to collapse. Free thinking is one thing, free for all is completely different.