Is It Ever OK To Shout At Someone Else's Child?

[lambsy_uk]

I heard this question asked on the radio today in the wake of an incident in a restaurant in USA where a cafe owner shouted at a child after the parents had failed to keep them quiet.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3168500/Diner-owner-defends-yelling-2-year-old-stop-crying.h...

I have shouted at a child on at least one occasion, other times I have at least spoken to them sternly telling then to decist from doing something.

The time I shouted at a child was about 2 years ago when I was in an outdoor play area with my girls. A young boy of about 4 or 5 years old was throwing handfuls of gravel around and much of it was hitting other children. I told him in forthright manner to pack it in and so he did, for a while. A boy of about 10 who had been taking a peppering while sitting on a ride thanked me. However a minute or two later the boy started to throw gravel again with me not far away and so I shouted "I SAID PACK IT IN", at which he ran off with his tail between his legs.

I was half expecting to be confronted by a parent or two but it didn't happen.

So what's your opinion on chastising other people's children?

[dark_castle1]

joamur, I would have to disagree with you when you say you are a bad parent ! It would seem to me by working all the hours you are able to you are providing a safe and stable environment for your childre, and in having done so have brought up respectul, polite and hard working young adults that are not only a credit to themselves but also you.

[joamur_gosof]

I agree on failed parents but not to the degree you do,I see a much broader picture ,I point to wages not as a red herring but as an undertaking of duty . The point your making is the parent has soul responsibility,The point I am making is in todays society this is not the whole case and media govs and schools all have influence over young adults as do their choice of friends...to suggest  a child who is maturing in todays world cannot decide for themselves a reaction to a situation is to suggest they are the parents robot,which is simply not the case and it undermines the childs own responsibility.

Experience tells me that whilst a parent can guide they cannot control so back to the environment a school offers ...should be exactly as you know it should ,if it isnt why is it not.

Parents have the responsibility you are pointing out but not the ultimate power to change a thing .

Teachers are not there to teach the kids manners but they surly know that teaching respect is part of the study and job ,now if it were a grain for grain this can go on forever,I do think parents and teachers should be a unity...They ask the parents frequently to help and make sure the kids do their homework...but hey thats the parents job ,cool please get rid of schools and we can teach are kids the curriculum respect and manners ...then if we have louts ...it the parents fault . 

[joamur_gosof]

thank you dark 🙂 I believe my kids did it all and I am proud of them ...I would have been happy had the school provided a safe enviroment  for them .I think they should tbh 

I suppose thats what the nitty gritty I am discussing is and why point for point there can be no whole right or wrong so have to agree to disagree 🙂

[******lynda******]

Parents have to begin the respect for other people and to teach children that teachers are to be given the same respect as parents if they are to act in loco parentis during school hours. Then the teachers should ensure a safe environment, building on what the parents should start. Unfortunately, nowadays, many parents do not give teachers the support when it is their children at fault. They will defend their children, even in the face of damning evidence. This denial is not going to help their offspring, but rather exacerbates the problem.

[joamur_gosof]

so its 'poor teachers' .....how many nursery kids are swearing ? Parents not trying hard enough to bring louts up ?

Anyway you are of course right   it really is as simple as respect...when you can tell where lack of comes from ..you have your answer,

on here seems to be unanimous it is parents...

ps how many collage and Uni students swear , I havent heard any in the grounds or is that just me ?

[******lynda******]

, children copy each other and they will copy the bad if they see it. It is easier for parents to start the respect process with the one child at a time in the home. If the teacher gets 20 odd kids, who have been taught nothing of respect, to deal with at once, that has to be more difficult than building on something the parents started.

[joamur_gosof]

I agree ,but why does the bad behaviour en masse start at around ages 10 after a few years within the school system...anyway if teachers  wabt to jack the job and let parents control all until the age of 18 then we would see...other than that ,its all point the blame at those not in direct influence for most of the week.

Do you think its part of the teachers job to make sure the children respect each other as well as the teachers ?

[upthecreekyetagain]

By all accounts the poor behaviour starts well before 10.

When children first start school parents have had 4 or 5 years alone with their children, teachers then have to try and cope with bad habits whilst at the same time trying to educate large classes.

[******lynda******]

That's right, and is what I was trying to say. Joamur, I already answered that...the parents telling children to respect teachers...as well as each other as it happens....is because if the children are told school is a pain, teachers are the enemy making you do stuff when you could be pleasing yourself, is not going to help teachers establish any control of any situation.

Children can be out of control long before age 10.

Education is about building knowledge and behaviours over time. It is ongoing. Of course teachers , as well as parents, should teach respect for other people, one's peers and for property etc. and no one should ignore bullying or any other anti social behaviour.

[Anonymous]

I remember when my girls were about 4 and 5 they had a friend sleeping over. This little girl swore like a trooper.

A few days later I heard my girls swear when they were sitting in the bath. I made them both stand up and slapped their bum and told them never to use that word again (F-word). I told them that it was a bad word and that we wouldn't  allow swearing.

They didn't know what it meant at that time, they had just copied the other little girl, but they got the message.

My kids never swore again as long as they were in primary school as far as I'm aware. We hardly ever swore and especially never within earshot of the kids.

When they went to secondary school they sometimes let one slip and were always told off for it. It was rare though that they swore in front of us. Now, what they did outside I could not control. They were influenced by peers as they got older who did swear a lot. Not much you can do about that, except keep telling them off when you hear them talking and swearing to their mates. We even told their mates off when they did. And after a while they all knew not to swear when they were at our house.

My girls (22 and 24)  now tell the little kids in our neighbourhood off when they hear them swear.

So although I believe parents have the greatest influence on their children's behaviour, the community and the teachers have to help as well. We can't be with our kids 24/7. But we can all do our bit.

[joamur_gosof]

well  I know you answered it already and I was trying to get you to confirm it with yourself and others on here...I am saying and have been saying from the off ..everyone is to blame and no one group is...the subject where do manners start is obvious at home the next where does it continue well obvious in school...so as I said the teachers know who the culprits are and then leave them in the mix....that is the teachers fault full stop for me...The harping that the only resposibility to the childrens manners belongs only to the parents is nonsense in this system...I witnessed it first hand good kids allowed to be put into an intolerable situation and the parent has zero control over that,,the other adults have but choose to follow guidlines .

Thats me done with this,the teachers are as much to blame as the parents of the bad kids on the good kids and pointing at class as has been done here also at single parents ..here and then all parents fault ..here ...teachers are not blameless onlookers,nor the gov nor the media nor the parents single or not.

Read the stuff on this thread if you want to know where the whole thing goes wrong today.Parents and Teachers in a unity can solve it ,but 6 people cannot agree and point blame. I haven't blamed anyone except the system of adults involved. I think seeing whole pictures can make a difference.

[upthecreekyetagain]

So what would you suggest should happen to those children that can't be managed in a normal school?

Teachers simply do not have the powers you suggest they should use to remove wha you consider to be bad influences.

[Anonymous]

Maybe they could make a policy,  like they have for school uniforms, no jewellery, no trainers, no make up, etc...and add a zero tolerance regarding swearing in school and the playground, not to each other or the teachers.

[fallen-archie]

Thing is harry some may see that as a breach of human rights, it is also an old fashioned view in the eyes of many and past values are no longer appropriate in modern society. Not my view but there are many who actively seek the kind of changes often using the word respect, but it is also interesting that many who demand respect are incapable of showing it themselves.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I was afraid that people might start shouting about human rights about that idea, but then where do you draw the line?

Then we might as well let everyone run riot.

[jd.linklater]

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@fallen-archie wrote:

Thing is harry some may see that as a breach of human rights, it is also an old fashioned view in the eyes of many and past values are no longer appropriate in modern society. Not my view but there are many who actively seek the kind of changes often using the word respect, but it is also interesting that many who demand respect are incapable of showing it themselves.

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I know a lot of our values from the past were a little skewed but any society needs discipline to have any sort of cohesion.  Good behaviour and respect for other people including figures in authority are a huge part of that discipline, but as others have said discipline and respect have to be instilled at home before children are let loose on the rest of society. Human Rights legislation has led to huge sections of society becoming obsessed not with their lawful rights but with their own needs and wants above all else, which has in turn led to generations of selfish kids with exactly the same attitude.

Why do we have so many children these days who are deemed to have 'special needs'? It makes me wonder how many special needs kids have inadequate, in other words 'special needs' parents. I went to a pretty average school in a pretty average working class estate in the fifties and early sixties and there were no kids who stood out as being particularly obstructive or requiring special attention. Ok there were one or two badly behaved kids but they were excluded if they became completely out of hand and started interrupting things too often. The needs of the majority of generally well behaved kids always came first, I don't know why that attitude ever changed. Nowadays teachers have to contend with kids who haven't even achieved beginners' level of reading and writing, kids with ADHD, kids from immigrant families who have virtually no working knowledge of the English language, and trying to absorb all these special needs cases into mainstream education. How can that be anything but detrimental to the majority?

[electric*mayhem*band]

Some time ago I walked passed a copper, who had obviously caught a couple of little street urchins committing some sort of slight misdemeanour, and was having a word with them. They couldn't have been any more than eight or nine years old. Both were standing there, cocking their flint-like countenances up to this policeman's full height, and as I went past one of them said to him, "Anyway you can't touch us mister, we know our rights". So they do too, chapter and verse. If the law has difficulty dealing with such toetrags, what chance do members of the public and teachers ? Once upon a time if you gave the local bobby lip, the chances were you landed yourself a smart clip around the ear. But of course the PC contingent have stepped in and stopped all that.

I'm not going to disparage teachers, because they have a very difficult job IMO, one that I wouldn't like. Apart from anything else in their daily tasks, they are now facing pupils (in some areas), who think that part of their school accoutrements, it's now (almost) mandatory to carry a knife.

[lambsy_uk]

I swear in the house, not constantly or even a lot, but more than I should. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that my kids swear now and then, but you'll not hear them swear in front of family or teachers or anyone other than others kids at school, if at all!

[joamur_gosof]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

So what would you suggest should happen to those children that can't be managed in a normal school?

Teachers simply do not have the powers you suggest they should use to remove wha you consider to be bad influences.

---

do adults over children know ?   that is the whole point, the teacher does not have the power to ....nonsense creeky ,they are adults ,of course they have the power to do what they know is right...its called fighting for what is right...teachers used to teach that,otherwise I would not be holding a conversation would I....so did parents ,thats the kind of unity I am talking about,,that has been lacking and wrong for years...why, well if you don't know now and you think it's the parents..please remain unhappy with things . Next up, people of ilk call for castrations for others in the pretence its for the good...and it is already being brandished about like its the new norm way to keep communities together...sham and shame ,Its like voting for a hitler after the facts this country now....listen to yourselves.,,,or don't and jump the wagon ...it matters nothing to me that I cannot get over the first hurdle with 5 people so no chance my world will come about,

Teachers are human adults and that really is the end of this topic for me as I saw it and lived it with my eyes ,it is a disgrace and the adults of this country should be ashamed for letting it happen as am I ,poor kids torn apart for what ? bigots ? despondants ? you name the winners.

too right it was my responsibity to stop it ,too right it was the other parents and too right it was the teachers.and yes too right it was the childrens choice to do so.

[joamur_gosof]

footnote all this aside upthecreeky ,are you the carer of deno and posh I am seeing ...if so what kind of help charity is needed and where/how  please...good on you if it is you.