Is It Ever OK To Shout At Someone Else's Child?

[lambsy_uk]

I heard this question asked on the radio today in the wake of an incident in a restaurant in USA where a cafe owner shouted at a child after the parents had failed to keep them quiet.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3168500/Diner-owner-defends-yelling-2-year-old-stop-crying.h...

I have shouted at a child on at least one occasion, other times I have at least spoken to them sternly telling then to decist from doing something.

The time I shouted at a child was about 2 years ago when I was in an outdoor play area with my girls. A young boy of about 4 or 5 years old was throwing handfuls of gravel around and much of it was hitting other children. I told him in forthright manner to pack it in and so he did, for a while. A boy of about 10 who had been taking a peppering while sitting on a ride thanked me. However a minute or two later the boy started to throw gravel again with me not far away and so I shouted "I SAID PACK IT IN", at which he ran off with his tail between his legs.

I was half expecting to be confronted by a parent or two but it didn't happen.

So what's your opinion on chastising other people's children?

[electric*mayhem*band]

I am quite sure that were a stranger to raise his/her voice to eight out of ten of the sprogs around here, at best they'd receive a tongue lashing from the parent, at worst a smack in the mouth. As much as I may feel the inclination to interfere if the kid is misbehaving, screaming, or throwing a tantrum outdoors, I'd walk away to a quiet zone. If in a restaurant, I'd ask the Mitre d' to intervene. It's not my place to bring up other people's ankle snappers - some folk are unfit to raise hamsters, let alone kids - , and if they have failed to raise them properly at the age in the OP, then a ten second outburst from me is hardly going to make the slightest bit of difference.

Only in a case like Lynda's would I retaliate, but I would assume that in the instances she's outlined they are yobs, and much older than 4/5 years old. Fortunately, I have never encountered this kind of criminal damage and vandalism head on.

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@joamur_gosof wrote:

have you evidence that in most cases the parents are the reason their children  misbehave or is it your assumption ?

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It has to be fair to say that when parents are present and can see their children misbehaving but don't take steps to correct that behaviour then it IS the parents that are to blame for the continuing misbehaviour.

[******lynda******]

Yobs...not really. There are several girls and they are between 10 and 12 years old.
I shouted at some younger kids, too, when they and some older kids thought it a fine game to knock down all the hay bales I had spent the afternoon stacking in the field. I had to do it all over again, as they scattered back to the houses. No wonder I had muscles on my muscles 🙂

[joamur_gosof]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

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@joamur_gosof wrote:

have you evidence that in most cases the parents are the reason their children  misbehave or is it your assumption ?

---

It has to be fair to say that when parents are present and can see their children misbehaving but don't take steps to correct that behaviour then it IS the parents that are to blame for the continuing misbehaviour.

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Agree ,,but video evidence in the bucket load mainly shows errant  to downright criminal behaviour country wide (but not exclusive to) a vast array of aged under 18's  with not a parent in sight. 

I can say in an area populated with 89,000 heads in a 7 mile radius ,that 250 crimes happen a week on average and out of that ,89% of police arrests are  in the under 25's. with 55% being under 18.

I can then assume a few rotten apples spoil the barrel or virtualy everyone in the area is bringing kids up to commit crime.

From personal experience I see it is a few rotten apples and it affects everyone because they live in a barrel. Now how shall we deal with it....

A) blame everyone else or B) as CD said earlier who commits what and why.C) start assuming and pointing fingers and classing it all.

Point fingers by all means but only at system create not system dwellers until creators are blameless ...in other words yes of course this nonsense in today's society exists in bucket loads  and yes the parents are to blame in cases (not classes) but the problem will only go away when all decent caring respectful dwellers point in the right direction..imo

[electric*mayhem*band]

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@******lynda****** wrote:
Yobs...not really. There are several girls and they are between 10 and 12 years old.
I shouted at some younger kids, too, when they and some older kids thought it a fine game to knock down all the hay bales I had spent the afternoon stacking in the field. I had to do it all over again, as they scattered back to the houses. No wonder I had muscles on my muscles 🙂

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Yes Lynda, that doesn't surprise me in the least. Many of the girls are worse than the boys in some cases. It's the 'Ladette Syndrome' just kicking in. And they will eventually start breeding. You only have to visit the town & city centres on a Friday/Saturday night to see evidence of that. Females with no style, no decorum, and no shame. Jeremy Kyle fodder.

 Mitre d'  ? ? ? Maitre d'.

[joamur_gosof]

footnote to Archie...

My actual experience with other peoples misbehaving disrespectful children (mainly if not all from welfare background) makes your experience seem like a day in the sun. I could quite easily blame the parents and their situation and nothing they can do could even scratch the surface....

I know who I blame as I spoke to many of the parents and other children and a lot of teachers.

In order the children by far were the most heartwarming (not all) the parents were not far behind ( not all) and last by miles were the hapless teachers  ( nearly all)...Why I asked myself then and now are the people who were forced upon me and my siblings hapless ?

I am not disagreeing with your viewpoints on how wrong this is ,I am disagreeing with who you blame and I could very easily find myself with such a narrow sight .Shouting at louts especially children should be a responsibility,anyone who takes that and muddles it up needs striking from the record and any adult acting hapless in such a situation ,needs a crash course in standing up for value..,would you not agree.

[joamur_gosof]

need to add...the parents of the kids that caused the problem ,were non swearing polite people would you believe,and I think most were community spirited benefit scroungers as well who organised or helped out on day trips and celebrations like egg hunts at easter..... fathom the magnitude of this unknown fact. it could blow 'the lid off 🙂

[astrologica]

Those parents may have been polite, non-swearing, community spirited people, but the fact remains that they failed to teach their children how to behave. It is not a teachers job to show children right from wrong and how to behave. They should know those things before they begin school. And class or poverty doesn't really come into it....it doesn't cost a penny to sit a child down and explain how to behave and to discipline them when they misbehave. These days, a big problem is that there are more families where there is no father present, and those mothers can't control their children. They take on the role of a 'friend' rather than a 'parent' and there is no authority in that role. I know some single mothers do a very good job, but many don't. I expect I'll get some flak for that suggestion, but I really do believe that it has a bearing. Children need firm boundaries and disciplines from an early age...and guidance on how to behave and consider other people.

[al**bear]

My neighbour's Son is 4 He runs riot 24/7 at maximum volume as well

2 weeks ago He started on the Friday night, His misbehaviour went all the way through Saturday and all day Sunday, this was over and above His usual lot

I was in garden on Sunday evening and He hit his father, then refused to go inside

Result His Father said

" right that it, you've done it now, No star in your Diary tonight"

The Boy laughed and carried on regardless

Yes, modern parenting really is bringing up a frightening generation

He frequently has Me seconds away from giving Him a clip on the ear for His cheek & damage to other peoples gardens including mine

His Fathers parents are the only ones I've seen chastising the brat, he always behaves when they are around.

Of course, I would end up in trouble with the authorities if I did it, need to have a word with my  7 year old Grandson to do for me

[joamur_gosof]

well I can't speak for everyone but I can say the parents I saw had well behaved children...in front of them...not so in the school yard and grounds though...so yep sure the teachers don't get paid to (what ? notice, care, intervene ??),so its obvious parents fault .

I can see that now thank you.

[cee-dee]

It's gonna get worse (as if it wasn't bad enough already)?:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33646913

[Anonymous]

Oh yes, the stars for good behaviour...........

And what about all the certificates they give out at schools. Well at my kid's primary school they did.

Certificate for "sitting quietly", certificate for "listening well to the teacher", certificate for "not running in the corridor"....etc....

What is all that about?

My youngest was aways very quiet in school and the teachers always commented on how well behaved she was, so polite, that she listened so well and that they wished they had a whole classroom full of kids like her. Every parent's evening I heard the same.

She never got a certificate, until I mentioned this one time at parent's evening. It wasn't very nice that a good kid like her was never rewarded and she didn't understood why she never got one. Well, she got one soon after that...."for walking quietly through the corridor"....I'm sorry, but I found that a bit of an insult. It's the only one she ever got. What kind of message does that give children that behave good or "normal".......That they shouldn't bother?

Rewarding children for things that should be a given, that should be the norm, feels very odd to me.

Same with getting extra Merits. At their secondary school they would get Merits for the most ridiculous stuff, like printing off something at home from the Internet. Not learning the contents, not even reading it! Or getting a Merit for handing their homework in on time.

I'm sorry, but I must be missing something here.

[papko]

I used to work as a projectionist in the local cinema , and regulalry had to tell people to be quiet 

 I did not off course shout , just "wheesht " , 

There were regular occurences when the parents would start up "dont tell my child what to do ! they cna do what thye want when they want etc !! "

 I (supported by the manager ) never compromised and explained they were runing the enjoyment of the film for the others . its a matter of consderation .

 One notable time the biggets brass neck I ever saw on a 14 year old (guess ) after being kicked out for repaetedly making noise , then asked for a refund , based on not seeing the whole film .

 It was explained , that she had a point , but could she give refund sout her own pocket to all the folk who had paid and she had disturbed .

[malacandran]

As a gay man, I've never been involved with kids, but these days they seem not nice at all.

The kids don't seem polite or respectful. They're just something to steer clear of. They make you never even want to look at them. 

Little horrors, shouting out, and being obnoxious.  Confident that they are above the law,  because they know that no teacher or policeman

dare touch them, for fear of being accused of child abuse.  It's an awful situation.

And hasn't this situation come about,  because some elite groups want to destroy Western Civilisation,  by breaking down the trust between adults and children?

[joamur_gosof]

if your right malac and its all a social engineering conspiracy...and I believe it is...then who do you think taught the children the belief they were above reproach ? The media ? the government ? the teachers ?  the parents ? or  all of them..

who made the policy who implemented the change in thinking ...I so wish adults would stop pointing fingers and tackle the culprits of modern society and a good start would be stopping ''poor old teachers carp''.are they not adults ? and if they are poor old crew ...what did they stop just teaching academic for and start handing leaflets for well being out and mentoring for if their only part in children's upbringing is academic,thus taking parents control of that aspect...yep all the parents fault..I am convinced now,poor old teachers without a mind of their own...what a hard job,no wonder they have resorted to complaining to neighbours about their lot.

Reading ,writing and then doing ....isn't that education ,if so go for it and start doing something 

[lambsy_uk]

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@electric*mayhem*band wrote:

It's not my place to bring up other people's ankle snappers - some folk are unfit to raise hamsters, let alone kids - , and if they have failed to raise them properly at the age in the OP, then a ten second outburst from me is hardly going to make the slightest bit of difference.

I think this becomes part of the problem though, although the kids are ultimately the responsibility of the parents I believe everyonr (the wider society) has an obligation to assist in guidance.

If a child was in trouble I wouldn't just walk on by believing if the parents aren't there to help then who am I to do so. In the same way I don't believe we should turn a blind eye to poor behaviour and parental inadequacies.

[lambsy_uk]

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@joamur_gosof wrote:

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

---

@joamur_gosof wrote:

have you evidence that in most cases the parents are the reason their children  misbehave or is it your assumption ?

---

It has to be fair to say that when parents are present and can see their children misbehaving but don't take steps to correct that behaviour then it IS the parents that are to blame for the continuing misbehaviour.

---

Agree ,,but video evidence in the bucket load mainly shows errant  to downright criminal behaviour country wide (but not exclusive to) a vast array of aged under 18's  with not a parent in sight. 

I can say in an area populated with 89,000 heads in a 7 mile radius ,that 250 crimes happen a week on average and out of that ,89% of police arrests are  in the under 25's. with 55% being under 18.

I can then assume a few rotten apples spoil the barrel or virtualy everyone in the area is bringing kids up to commit crime.

From personal experience I see it is a few rotten apples and it affects everyone because they live in a barrel. Now how shall we deal with it....

A) blame everyone else or B) as CD said earlier who commits what and why.C) start assuming and pointing fingers and classing it all.

Point fingers by all means but only at system create not system dwellers until creators are blameless ...in other words yes of course this nonsense in today's society exists in bucket loads  and yes the parents are to blame in cases (not classes) but the problem will only go away when all decent caring respectful dwellers point in the right direction..imo

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Parents are still to blame even if a few bad apples are at the heart of the problem. With my children the buck stops with me, if I don't know what my kids are up to and what influences they may be under then that is my fault and I believe the same applies for all. Kids are the responsibility of parents until they are 18.

All decent respectful dwellers should be responsible for their children and not turn a blind eye to the ill behaviour of others, in my opinion!

If you just point fingers elsewhere we are unlikely to get anywhere and so I point the finger right back at me if a child of mine does something wrong, I expect others to do the same! Blaming system creators is a cop-out!

[lambsy_uk]

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@Anonymous wrote:

She never got a certificate, until I mentioned this one time at parent's evening. It wasn't very nice that a good kid like her was never rewarded and she didn't understood why she never got one. Well, she got one soon after that...."for walking quietly through the corridor"....I'm sorry, but I found that a bit of an insult. It's the only one she ever got. What kind of message does that give children that behave good or "normal".......That they shouldn't bother?

I would guess she knows the difference between herself and the others, my girls certainly do. They don't believe they shouldn't bother they know they are appreciated by those that count most, their parents. When I tell them how proud I am when teachers say nice things about  them, that counts for a lot!

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[lambsy_uk]

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@malacandran wrote:

As a gay man, I've never been involved with kids, but these days they seem not nice at all.

The kids don't seem polite or respectful. They're just something to steer clear of. They make you never even want to look at them. 

Little horrors, shouting out, and being obnoxious.  Confident that they are above the law,  because they know that no teacher or policeman

dare touch them, for fear of being accused of child abuse.  It's an awful situation.

And hasn't this situation come about,  because some elite groups want to destroy Western Civilisation,  by breaking down the trust between adults and children?

Though I appreciate your concers I don't believe it is all bad. There are plenty of good kids out there, they just don't get noticed so readily.

[leoleoleo123]

If shouting was needed, I would.
The trouble with kids and parents today, I think, is that the parent is trying to be a best friend rather than a parent.
Working in retail, I see haphazard parenting every day.
Usually, shouting is not called for... Just a withering look, or calm but firm words do the trick.
Often, kids respond more favourably to an unknown adult rather than a parent if they are not in a home situation! 😀