How many of you is going to take in Refugees

[tommy.irene]

How many people on Ebay would take a refugee family into there own home?..... I wouldnt.....

[jd.linklater]

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@astrologica wrote:

It appears that Germany are going to introduce border controls, because of the number of refugees arriving.  What next?

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 I'm not surprised in the least but what I do find peculiar is that only last week the German vice-chancellor said that Germany could take in 500,000 refugees a year for several years. This weekend they have had less than 15,000 come in via Austria and the country is struggling to cope. 

[joe_bloggs*]

A few months before he was killed and during the UK and NATO bombing of Libya  leader Muamar Gaddafi said:

"Now listen you, people of NATO. You’re bombing a wall which stood in the way of African migration to Europe, and in the way of Al-Qaeda terrorists. This wall was Libya. You‘re breaking it. You’re idiots, and you will burn in Hell for thousands of migrants from Africa and for supporting Al-Qaeda. It will be so. I never lie. And I do not lie now,"

We're just reaping the whirlwind which we helped create and the idiots seem intent on bombing Syria

http://www.herald.co.zw/europe-burning-as-gaddafi-promised/

[fallen-archie]

I wondered where the source of this story was, this from Wiki;

The Herald has for some time been noted for its completely one sided reporting for the government of President Robert Mugabe and the Zanu-PF party, and its demonisation of the opposition party, the Movement for Democratic Change (MDC). It often accuses the MDC of being agents of colonial powers.

This is what I bang on about, Zimbabwe may be the idea of a successful African democracy for some but it's once excellent economy has been bankrupted by corruption, racism and a preparedness to take financial help from rogue states.

What is true is the mess in North Africa has been made worse by the events in Libya, but it's a bit rich of the Russians to comment given their role in the Crimea and earlier in Afghanistan. 

If you follow other articles in the Herald you will also come across endless references to the U.S. and it' imperialist activities throughout Central a South America. Surely it is time to move on and accept that Communism is as corrupt as many democracies, do either offer a more egalitarian caring state ? I think not.

[joe_bloggs*]

I,m sure there are plenty of other sources for that story,not just the herald,google is a wonderful thing,but the main point remains.we reap what we sow

[fallen-archie]

And often what we don't.

[bookhunter2007]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I'll make my own mind up about what I think are fibs or not. 

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Cool. Here's one I found earlier...

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I don't think you can compare now with then.

My great grand father helped many Jews escape from the Germans at the risk of his own life and of his family. He fed them, he hid them, he helped them to saver places and god knows what else.

They were happy with the aid given, happy to be relatively save, not kicking, screaming and demanding things.

Not everyone was as brave as my great grandfather, nor as well off. Not everyone was in a position to give help. No one held that against them either.

My mum fled from the Germans when they burned her village down and shot all the boys and men. She was helped by the resistance and hid underground for 3 days in the woods before she could be brought to a saver place. She had to cut meat out of a dead horse because they were starving (she still can't se blood without fainting). She took the coat from a dead German as she was freezing cold. She saw Canadians hanged in the woods, their faces painted by the Germans and on and on her stories go. She knows what it's like to live through war.

I have heard enough horror stories to have compassion with those that flee oppression.

But now, if you are reluctant to give aid for whatever reasons you are the bad one. You are made to feel guilty. The one that has no feelings for those people's situation. Give me a break. I can hardly feed my own family let alone some refugees. Plus my house is full. If they think they have come to the land of milk and honey they might change their minds in a few years.

If I had the wealth and the space I would most likely help. I have never turned away anyone who came to me for help, but I will not have it forced down my throat by the media or anyone else.

It does not make me left or right wing.

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Harry - you must be incredibly proud of your great grandfather and also your mum - in your place I most certainly would be.

I understand your objection to the media exposé of the plight of many refugees and the implied obligation being placed on us all to help.

It is worth bearing in mind however how many more Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals might have been saved from the horrors of the death camps during the 40s if back in the 30s the media had been more open about what was happening in Germany and if those same groups had kicked, screamed and demanded help from other nations.

The horrors of the Pol Pot regime in Cambodia took place in the 70s behind the scenes with little publicity and nowhere for the population to escape to. 

Media publicity is one of the biggest safeguards against genocide.

[bookhunter2007]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

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Harry - you must be incredibly proud of your great grandfather and also your mum - in your place I most certainly would be.

I understand your objection to the media exposé of the plight of many refugees and the implied obligation being placed on us all to help.

It is worth bearing in mind however how many more Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals might have been saved from the horrors of the death camps during the 40s if back in the 30s the media had been more open about what was happening in Germany and if those same groups had kicked, screamed and demanded help from other nations.

The horrors of the Pol Pot regime in Cambodia took place in the 70s behind the scenes with little publicity and nowhere for the population to escape to. 

Media publicity is one of the biggest safeguards against genocide.

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That is true, but can also lead to public acceptance of it.  Der Sturmer's Blood Libels was once of the key components in dehumanizing the Jews and other "black triangles"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_St%C3%BCrmer

Same with radio stations using the term Inyenzi (cockroaches) during the Rwanda genocide.

Narrowcasting and confirmation bias can lead to fairly ghastly levels of acceptance.

[Anonymous]

Ihasa, I don't feel guilty in any way, shape or form, so don't worry about offending me. I understand where you and/or others are coming from. I do not need to be educated about war. I'm Dutch and take it from me I was educated very thoroughly about  WW2

The media and face-ache bombard us with all kinds of contradicting info and most of the time the truth is always somewhere in the middle.

Am I proud of my great grand father? Yes, he was a very good man. The same man who didn't hold it against his daughter when she chose not to take in a young Jewish girl, as she and her husband were just too frightened to get killed by the Germans, and the girl got deported with her parents..............

What my mum lived through never left her and she is now 84. I do not wish it on anyone.

It is still my prerogative to make up my own mind up without others telling me what I should or should not think or do. My great grand father was the same. No one told him what to do or not to do. He did what he did because he chose to do it, not because public opinion forced him into action. Even his wife, who was petrified about what he was doing, could not stop him.

So if anyone wants to stay on my case..........go ahead, make my day........................

[bookhunter2007]

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@Anonymous wrote:
What my mum lived through never left her and she is now 84. I do not wish it on anyone.

It is still my prerogative to make up my own mind up without others telling me what I should or should not think or do. My great grand father was the same. No one told him what to do or not to do. He did what he did because he chose to do it, not because public opinion forced him into action. Even his wife, who was petrified about what he was doing, could not stop him.

So if anyone wants to stay on my case..........go ahead, make my day........................

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Good to hear your mum has lived to a ripe old age Harry. It's a shame my Grandfather didn't - He never made it out of his 20s.

Perhaps if sections of the German populous hasn't been so caught up in "group think", and swallowed Blood Libels hook, line, and sinker, then many of the atrocities of WW2 could've been avoided. Then again, in the backdrop of economic troubles, I guess it's easy for some folks to project their own economic frustrations onto whichever folk devil is offered as flavour of the month.

We live and learn eh?

[******lynda******]

But we don't live and learn, do we? 'Group think' lives on, everywhere.
As Robert A Heinlein said, 'You can sway 1000 men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic'

[bookhunter2007]

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@******lynda****** wrote:
But we don't live and learn, do we? 'Group think' lives on, everywhere.
As Robert A Heinlein said, 'You can sway 1000 men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic'

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Indeed. And in the digital age we have the filter bubble effect:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_bubble

Hence why extremist groups - at home and abroad - have found the internet a very useful tool for recruitment and propaganda.

[tommy.irene]

629 Lookers ..71 posts and 2 people will take in Refugees.

[******lynda******]

I replied on the other thread. Having since spoken to my OH, who is Jewish, he agrees with me. We could offer a genuine refugee family a roof until they were sorted out, but funding the bills is not an option. I would hope that they would not need to stay too long and if successful, another newly arrived family could then be helped...sort of like fostering lol

[joamur_gosof]

Wonder how many would help take in American  or Russians  fleeing ? Just curious .

[big_spender_uk]

I agree with all that. I am not against immigration at all and understand those poor people living in those conditions but your post is spot on. Its gonna get messy. Some other solution needs to unfold. If you say anything negative about immigration you can look prejudice but these matters are a fact.

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@tommy.irene wrote:
629 Lookers ..71 posts and 2 people will take in Refugees.

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19 posters, 2 will take in refugees - over 10%

More than 26 million households in the UK - do the maths 🙂

[joamur_gosof]

Unless I change my mind and then its 1 in 19 and thats less than refugees 😄

[tobmarti0]

Harry you're Dutch you say ? Living in Britain ? Availing of the NHS? Benefits system as and when ?

[tobmarti0]

Your grandfather's courage does not negate your apathy.