Have you seen this?

[cee-dee]

If you're a driver watch this video. If you're impatient start it 2 minutes in:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq2xStb0R-c

97 MPH = 142 feet per second.

70 MPH = 102 feet per second.

60 MPH = 88 feet per second.

54 feet a second less would have given time to react given the same manoeuvre by the car driver?

What do bikers think of it? Just a fatalistic view = if your number's up, that's it?

[sir_arthur_strebe-grebling]

Sadly, the car driver was prosecuted and banned from driving.

[sir_arthur_strebe-grebling]

Echoes of http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Speeding+biker+blamed+for+head-+on+crash+horror%3B+Decapitated+man%27s... where a Scouser decapitated himself by driving at 97mph into an oncoming car.

[saasher2012]

By her own admission her son was a fast rider, & although I wouldn't wish it on anybody the slogan " think Bike" is of no use to anyone if the bikers themselves are going so fast they can't see the danger! It's a tragic story but it could have been avoided if BOTH parties involved had been more careful, the outcome was an accident waiting to happen no amount of headgear & leathers would have saved this young man, human body without protection from a solid machine going at high speed equals death or maiming!.

[evoman3957]

Ultimately, for every action there is a reaction; what actions we take in Life, will command a reaction.........either at the time or further down life's road. You pay the Piper and You call the Tune.

[suzieseaside]

I think he shouldn't have been doing nearly a ton on an A road with a 60mph max speed limit.

I'm not surprised the car driver didn't see the bike coming at that speed (and he wouln't expect anyone to be approaching at 97mph), but he should have seen the car that the bike overtook before the collision. If he hadn't admitted not seeing the car I wonder if he would have been prosecuted and banned from driving.

Either way, if the motorcyclist had not been driving at such a crazy speed I doubt that he would have been in a fatal accident.  If the car driver was partly at fault at least the bike could have gone around the back of him as he turned into the side road.

It's good that car drivers are reminded to be aware of motorbikes (and cyclists) on our roads.  Plenty of accidents happen when everyone is within the legal speed limit and many might be avoided if both car drivers and motorcyclists are more aware of each other and anticipate dangers.  But I'm not sure that this video serves the purpose very well, other than to warn motorcyclists of the potential consequences to themselves (and others) of driving at illegal breakneck speeds.  Many car drivers might think the speeding motorcyclist had only himself to blame by not observing speed limits and might have little sympathy apart from for the family of the victim of this accident. 

[lhasa.two]

Accepting the bike rider should not have been driving at that speed, I'm also not surprised the car driver was prosecuted.

Watching the video, it seemed to me when the biker exclaimed "no!" he was already very close to the car driver who should have seen him coming way back but presumably still decided to make his right turn. The biker was approaching him from a straight road. Besides which the police will have made their own accident investigation and wouldn't have brought the case against the driver if they thought he was not to blame to some extent. They could have just put it down to the biker's speed if it was that straightforward.

Putting aside blame, it's a very sad result both for the biker and his family and for the car driver who will have to live with the memory of the accident for the rest of his life.

[cee-dee]

The thing is like I said earlier, the cross section of the bike and rider would have been very small and with the biker crouched over the bike, smaller still, add that to a perhaps confusing background and you can see how easy it was for the car driver to miss seeing him.

There's been many times when I've looked, saw nothing, looked where I'm turning, looked again and had a chill up my back as I spot a bike. It was an old TV advert about "look, and look right again" that got me in the habit of looking again.

Look at the distances covered in a second at the three speeds in my OP and it surely stands out that "Speed kills"?

[mustard-tree]

In my younger days, I rode a motorbike regularly for years and never had an accident.

Yes, I fell off a few times, but no other vehicle involved.

The only time I ever rode at very high speed was at Santa Pod while competing in sprinting (or drag racing) on a racing bike.

Quarter mile from standing start and plenty of open space to slow down and stop.

Too old and decrepit to ride a bike now.

[bankhaunter]

I don't think the motorcyclist's speed had much to do with the accident apart from possibly causing fatal injuries rather than serious ones.

You Tube is full of similar examples involving pedal cyclists at no great distance from the car in fact there is one where not onl;y does one car turn right into the path of a cyclist but a motorist waiting to pull out of the turning, still pulls out failing to see the accident which happens right in front of them, the bike ending up under the car.

I've been riding slowly along a quiet back road and been hit full on by a motorist leaving a carpark, no question of my speed being involved.

"Sorry I didn't see you" really means "Sorry I wasn't looking".

[cee-dee]

Sticking to the case in question, I think speed had everything to do with it.

Were it possible to position a bike travelling at 60 MPH (the speed limit on that road) in the same place that the bike was (at 97MPH) when the car driver began his turn, would a collision have been avoided by a combination of less speed and a longer time for the biker to react?

Keeping a lookout cuts both ways? The biker would see a junction ahead? Being a biker and knowing the carelessness of people making a turn wouldn't you excercise caution (ie, slow down) when approaching such a place?

There's also anticipation, the biker should have seen 1/ the junction and 2/ the car preparing to turn right. You can clearly see both in the video, the bikers perception would have been better?

There's at least 3 seconds between seeing the car and the collision. At 60MPH that would have given at least 160 more feet to travel before impact by which time the car would have made it's turn?

[evoman3957]

Unfortunately, the reactions of the Car Driver was indicative of the reactions of many Drivers, who pull across the path of an oncoming vehicle, they stop right where they are. This makes the chances of avoiding a collision even slimmer than they may be anyway ( and that varies according to the speed of the oncoming vehicle ). Having got in that position, the Car driver would have been better off Flooring the Accelerator ( whenever He saw the Motorcyclist ) which MAY have got him out of the way in time ( however slim the chance ); one thing's for sure, travelling at that speed, the Motorcyclist certainly wasn't going to be able to change direction.

[bankhaunter]

The wide angle lens used on those cameras can give a false impression of distance, when the car driver crossed the hatched line, the motorcyclist was probably no more than 50 yards from it, he was actually on the junction, a slower speed would have given little more than 1 second extra to react which would not have been enough.

The motorist had several seconds to see the motorcyclist before deciding to cross his path.

I may be cynical but I've very narrowly avoided many such accidents, due mainly to years of experience and which have taught me that motorists often either simply don't look or are willing to take a chance.

[evoman3957]

I must admit that, had I been the Motorcyclist, and seen a Car in the distance, waiting to cross in front of My path; I would have been inclined to slow down.................self preservation I guess.

[bankhaunter]

self preservation I guess.

That's where experience comes in, the reading of barely perceptable signals from the other road users.

You have to have near misses for the lesson to really sink in, Unfortunately with that particular motorcyclist, it appears their first experience was their last.

[cee-dee]

Latest:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-29106421

[lambsy_uk]

---

@saasher2012 wrote:
By her own admission her son was a fast rider, & although I wouldn't wish it on anybody the slogan " think Bike" is of no use to anyone if the bikers themselves are going so fast they can't see the danger! It's a tragic story but it could have been avoided if BOTH parties involved had been more careful, the outcome was an accident waiting to happen no amount of headgear & leathers would have saved this young man, human body without protection from a solid machine going at high speed equals death or maiming!.

---

You're right about "if BOTH parties had been more careful".

Accidents can often be avoided or consequences lessened if at least one of the parties involved is being careful and vigilant. Ideally both will driving in a safe manner meaning if one party has a lapse the other can compensate and avoid an accident. The serious problems come about when both parties lapse.

[saasher2012]

The sad thing is Humans are all prone to lapses of concentration, no matter how experienced the driver or rider is & in this case & unfortunately in many others the outcome is fatal . Very sad! For both sides of this accident.

[bankhaunter]

I have a feeling there are some motorists who simply don't notice two wheeled road users, only looking out for and seeing larger four wheeled vehicles, smaller things just don't impose on their consciousness.

I've known drivers who are waiting to pull out of a side turning, look me in the eye but still pull out making me brake hard to avoid hitting them, it couldn't be said they didn't see me.

A proportion of people are amazingly unobservant of everything in their daily life not just on the roads but when driving they don't see likely possibilities developing ahead until they are right on top of them, often too late.

That's not just car drivers but all road users including pedestrians.

[saasher2012]

Yes that's also true& you don't have to be on the road to experience it, I frequently have to jump out of the way when walking my dog on the pavement area on the way to the park, as cyclist riding their bikes come hurtling past with no warning or care for a pedestrian. But if that was to happen to them on the road they would rightly be very annoyed ,Everyone is in such a darned hurry nowadays!.