Good morning all, a few allotment home growing tips would be most great fully received ☺

[**bustysinclaire**]

Well, not sure whether I've bitten off a bit more than I can chew but I'm going to give it ago.

I've acquired an allotment very very near to my oh's on my new home it is in a very bad overgrown state so there's a lot of work to be done to get it ready before I can do any type of planting, so it looks like it is unlikely that i will be able to grow much if anything this year.

I have been told that doing a bit at a time is better than trying to get the whole lot up and running straight away, so what I would like to ask is.......

If there are any home growers out there could you give me any tips on what type of things I could try to grow that don't mind being planted late in the year.

Any allotment tips would be most appreciated and one thing I could do with knowing is how to tackle slugs and snails effectively without using harmful chemicals etc.  As I have noticed the allotment next to mine have lost some lovely newly planted young plants already.

[cee-dee]

Hire a rotavator and do a rough "digging" job of it then go round picking out the uprooted stuff. After that you can concentrate on a smaller patch and get stuff in quite quickly. Remember:-  "One years weeds equals seven years seeds...."

The finest slug killer is............... salt. Lay a line of salt round your small patch and if anything tries to cross it, it'll be curtains. You don't want salt in your ground so just lay it round your patch.

[**bustysinclaire**]

Arrhhh thank you CD

I had thought of rotavator, so I have bought myself this of ebay 272665434385. Some I looked at to hire and buy are huge and hubby thinks they are too heavy for me. So I googled and saw on YouTube a women using one similar.  What's your opinion on the machine?

[bankhaunter]

Some info here.

https://www.love2learnallotmenting.co.uk/equipment/allotment-rotavators/10646

You could also see if there is a local allotment association where you might obtain useful advice.

[javikha_4]

If you have a new allotment in need of attention I would concentrate on getting it in shape for next year.
Not sure what you want to plant, veg or flowers etc, most seem to opt for veg on allotments, but that's next year. 

'weeds' can be annual or perennial. Annuals will come and go,perennials will recede in winter and return in spring. You have to remove the roots of perennial manually.Easier long term to manually remove, rotivators can often result in having 10 more plants you don't want, rather than the one you started off with


Its likely to be a smallish area, so the most you will need is a few tools like a spade, fork, hand trowel, riddle, hoe, etc
You don't need a rotivator which is indiscriminate and may propagate certain weeds as a result and you wont get to know weeds, and your own soil type either

compost area for organic waste, but not for certain things like roots of certain perennials, which you need to dispose of elsewhere



Slugs and snails

Most feed during the evening/night and prefer damp conditions
There is no one single solution, you may need several to limit predators

Regimes
Water in the morning, so that in the summer the ground will be able to dry by late afternoon
Obviously if it rains, this will defeat that, but that's beyond your control

Don't use salt for a general barrier, unless you want to destroy your own plants and possibly your neighbours
which wont make you too popular.It's bad news.It will wash into the soil with rain. 



Here's some of the most often used remedies with varying degrees of success

the tidier the plot is, the less opportunity they have to find hiding places .

nematodes.. costs money, effective in right conditions but read instructions. Also kills keel slugs which most others don't since they live mainly below ground. Sort of 'aliens john hurt scene' meets slugs.

beer traps....slugs attracted by fermenting gasses, drown

mechanical control...some go out at night and pick them when active

other day traps, half grapefruit shell remains, old damp bits of wood, flower pots, black plastic..will be shelter in the daylight for slugs and snails. Simply collect and dispose of during the day rather than night

copper bands, placed around plants...varying effectiveness since debris washes over

electric 'fences'..essentially copper strips powered by battery, usually lasts about 6-9 months
effectively harmless even to slugs but gives mild shock to deter, again see copper bands

chamomileand other plants  aromatic

Preferred diet..some slugs like certain plants more than others, so may be helpful when choosing

ecobalance with predators.. birds, frogs, hedgehogs feed on slugs amongst other things, so encouraging these
may help, but as its a smallish plot with others around, this may be limit your ability in this respect

anything abrasive sharp absorbent as a barrier will deter, though latter will become less effective in wet conditions, which are those which are attractive to slug feasts

virtually none of the above bar nematodes will be effective against underground slugs which attracts root crops such as potatos 

Concentrate on preparing your plot, and getting to know whats there, soil type, conditions, etc

[upthecreekyetagain]

We've decided to give the "no-dig" system a go this year.  We're both getting too old for digging!

One of our friends have had really good results with hardly any weeds - we're lucky because we've got almost unlimited supplies of well rotted horse compost for the mulch.

http://www.charlesdowding.co.uk/no-dig-growing/no-dig-growing-preparation/

[cee-dee]

I debated for a while as to whether I should waste any more time responding but I thought I might as well.

Now I'm no green-fingered, avid gardener (and never was) but some years back I bought a derelict cottage and the "garden" had been open to the fields. Of course, as soon as I fenced it off all the weeds in creation shot up.

When I finally got round to thinking about the garden, an old chap who lived "nearby" (about half a mile away across the fields) who was a keen gardener with a very large patch who grew all his own stuff advised hiring a rotavator after seeing me doing battle with a spade.

I took his advice and did that. Now, it wasn't "seeding season" so any seeds from the weeds were already in the ground and there's notta lot you can do with them until they sprout again but some things propagate from roots or the remains of the weed soooooo, after rotavating the patch, all the debris was raked off, it was rotavated again and more debris raked up, and again. The debris was left to dry in a metal container and burned when dry enough.

Taking the old chap's advice, the patch was surrounded with salt ensuring that it was well away from the growing area.

First year and we had oodles of veg and no slugs. OK, so some weeds re-grew so we ensured that none went to seed and each year the patch was rotavated and anything "weedish" that had grown was dealt with the same way as before.

[**bustysinclaire**]

---

@bankhaunter wrote:

Some info here.

https://www.love2learnallotmenting.co.uk/equipment/allotment-rotavators/10646

You could also see if there is a local allotment association where you might obtain useful advice.

---

Thank you bank.  

The video makes rotavating look so easy xxx

[**bustysinclaire**]

---

@javikha_4 wrote:

If you have a new allotment in need of attention I would concentrate on getting it in shape for next year.
Not sure what you want to plant, veg or flowers etc, most seem to opt for veg on allotments, but that's next year. 

'weeds' can be annual or perennial. Annuals will come and go,perennials will recede in winter and return in spring. You have to remove the roots of perennial manually.Easier long term to manually remove, rotivators can often result in having 10 more plants you don't want, rather than the one you started off with


Its likely to be a smallish area, so the most you will need is a few tools like a spade, fork, hand trowel, riddle, hoe, etc
You don't need a rotivator which is indiscriminate and may propagate certain weeds as a result and you wont get to know weeds, and your own soil type either

compost area for organic waste, but not for certain things like roots of certain perennials, which you need to dispose of elsewhere



Slugs and snails

Most feed during the evening/night and prefer damp conditions
There is no one single solution, you may need several to limit predators

Regimes
Water in the morning, so that in the summer the ground will be able to dry by late afternoon
Obviously if it rains, this will defeat that, but that's beyond your control

Don't use salt for a general barrier, unless you want to destroy your own plants and possibly your neighbours
which wont make you too popular.It's bad news.It will wash into the soil with rain. 



Here's some of the most often used remedies with varying degrees of success

the tidier the plot is, the less opportunity they have to find hiding places .

nematodes.. costs money, effective in right conditions but read instructions. Also kills keel slugs which most others don't since they live mainly below ground. Sort of 'aliens john hurt scene' meets slugs.

beer traps....slugs attracted by fermenting gasses, drown

mechanical control...some go out at night and pick them when active

other day traps, half grapefruit shell remains, old damp bits of wood, flower pots, black plastic..will be shelter in the daylight for slugs and snails. Simply collect and dispose of during the day rather than night

copper bands, placed around plants...varying effectiveness since debris washes over

electric 'fences'..essentially copper strips powered by battery, usually lasts about 6-9 months
effectively harmless even to slugs but gives mild shock to deter, again see copper bands

chamomileand other plants  aromatic

Preferred diet..some slugs like certain plants more than others, so may be helpful when choosing

ecobalance with predators.. birds, frogs, hedgehogs feed on slugs amongst other things, so encouraging these
may help, but as its a smallish plot with others around, this may be limit your ability in this respect

anything abrasive sharp absorbent as a barrier will deter, though latter will become less effective in wet conditions, which are those which are attractive to slug feasts

virtually none of the above bar nematodes will be effective against underground slugs which attracts root crops such as potatos 

Concentrate on preparing your plot, and getting to know whats there, soil type, conditions, etc

---

Thank you Javikha. I appreciate you taking the time to post all those tips.

[**bustysinclaire**]

Thanks creeky.

Funnily enough I watched a YouTube video about that very non digging option earlier today, I too can have well rotted manure on tap lol as my sister is very horsey.

Reminds me about the joke,. What do you put on your rhubarb? We put manure on ours.

                                                    Oh really, we put custard on ours.

[theelench]

I've been self-employed as a gardener for over twenty-five years and over that time have seen all the above tried in various gardens and veg. plots.

The best method I've ever come across is a combination of the non-dig system (where you never dig), the annual dig over (traditional where you dig over in autumn) plus a winter trench.  It was used by an elderly couple I worked with for many years.

All their grass cuttings were used between rows of plants as a mulch to suppress weeds and reduce the need for watering during the growing season.  It does help to some extent with slugs and snails as it dries in dry weather and makes it difficult for them to get around.  The whole plot was dug over in autumn digging in the residue. 

There wasn't a lot as worms multiply rapidly with all the food and in dry weather they would eat their way through the cuttings surprisingly quickly.  Digging over incorporates the grass and helps keep the soil open the following year. 

The winter trench was dug two spades deep and slowly filled with veg. peelings, soft prunings etc from the garden and covered over in the spring.  It increases the depth of soil, its ability to retain water and makes it easier for roots to penetrate. 

They grew most of their own veg.  delicious Logan Berries and some fowers for cutting with a minimum of digging, weeding and watering.  Digging over was very easy as all the organic matter had made the soil very light.

Another tip, from my father, potatoes are good for suppressing weeds in newly cultivated areas and break up the soil.   Good luck growing your own veg, it tastes so much better than shop bought.  There used to be an RHS book on veg. growing that my father used when he first got an allotment.  If it's still in print you would find it very usefull.

[theelench]

After a second coffee and shower I think there's another thing to consider with your overgrown and neglected plot.

Soil is an incredible complex eco-system in its own right, it is a complex web of living organisms and operates at its own level.   Your plot might be covered in luxuriant weeds but it's operating at a fairly basic level.  The numbers of bacteria, fungi and earth worms are low, just enough to recycle the nutrients available in those weeds.  What you want is it to operate at a more intense and productive level.

You have to get the soil back into condition to do this and it is difficult to hurry the process.  When you start cultivating and adding compost / manure you disrupt the eco-system and its fertility is lowered until the soil organisms adapt and catch up.  This is most often seen when Nitrogen Robbery occurs.  That will happen when you dig over unused soil add organic matter then put in plants too soon after.  The soil organisms take Nitrogen out of the soil as they increase in number to break down the increased food leaving less for the plants.  The result is poor plants and disappointment at a failed crop.

It's like turning a couch potato into an athlete.  At first the couch potato should exercise little and often and slowly build up to more intense exercise.  It's the same with soil.  I said above that the worms would get through most of the grass cuttings during the summer, there were thousands of them because they had increased in numbers over years in response to the generous amounts of food they were given.

So at first add small quantities of compost / grass / manure and build up the quantity over time.  I've read that in Victorian veg. gardens it was common to add manure at the rate of a wheelbarrow load to the square yard.

I'm sorry if this sounds complicated and daunting, it isn't really.  As you get to know your soil you will recognise what is right and wrong with it.  There are very few fixed "rules" in gardening but one is the Law of the Minimum"  --  plants grow according to what they have least of in the soil.  Their most important nutrients are light, oxygen and water plus naturally occurring chemicals so you aim to get your soil in condition to provide these easily to the plants.  If you recognise that this will take time you won't be disappointing with the poor crops to start with, just look at why they were disappointing and you will see how to improve them.

[**bustysinclaire**]

---

@theelench wrote:

After a second coffee and shower I think there's another thing to consider with your overgrown and neglected plot.

Soil is an incredible complex eco-system in its own right, it is a complex web of living organisms and operates at its own level.   Your plot might be covered in luxuriant weeds but it's operating at a fairly basic level.  The numbers of bacteria, fungi and earth worms are low, just enough to recycle the nutrients available in those weeds.  What you want is it to operate at a more intense and productive level.

You have to get the soil back into condition to do this and it is difficult to hurry the process.  When you start cultivating and adding compost / manure you disrupt the eco-system and its fertility is lowered until the soil organisms adapt and catch up.  This is most often seen when Nitrogen Robbery occurs.  That will happen when you dig over unused soil add organic matter then put in plants too soon after.  The soil organisms take Nitrogen out of the soil as they increase in number to break down the increased food leaving less for the plants.  The result is poor plants and disappointment at a failed crop.

It's like turning a couch potato into an athlete.  At first the couch potato should exercise little and often and slowly build up to more intense exercise.  It's the same with soil.  I said above that the worms would get through most of the grass cuttings during the summer, there were thousands of them because they had increased in numbers over years in response to the generous amounts of food they were given.

So at first add small quantities of compost / grass / manure and build up the quantity over time.  I've read that in Victorian veg. gardens it was common to add manure at the rate of a wheelbarrow load to the square yard.

I'm sorry if this sounds complicated and daunting, it isn't really.  As you get to know your soil you will recognise what is right and wrong with it.  There are very few fixed "rules" in gardening but one is the Law of the Minimum"  --  plants grow according to what they have least of in the soil.  Their most important nutrients are light, oxygen and water plus naturally occurring chemicals so you aim to get your soil in condition to provide these easily to the plants.  If you recognise that this will take time you won't be disappointing with the poor crops to start with, just look at why they were disappointing and you will see how to improve them.

---

Thank you quibono,  a very interesting and helpful read.

I am definitely going to have to take my time and work on the soil, I doubt I'll get anything ready for planting this year.

I have been very fortunate in acquiring a fairly good sized plot for very little yearly rent so it leaves me with a little surplus monies to spend to get it up and running.  

It's sure going to a challenge, but one I'm really excited about.  

Thank you to every single poster who has given their time and tips, most appreciated. If I remember to take my phone with me I'll take a pic and show you what I'm attempting to make work xxx

[theelench]

It'll certainly be a challenge, getting any neglected plot back into shape always is.  One secret is don't work too hard.  How often have I started work on a garden (and a few veg. plots) where the new owner has knocked themselves out working hard and achieved very little apart from blisters and back ache, then thinking the task impossible given up and let the weeds take over again.

If you take your time and learn as you go it is immensely satisfying to literally see your plans come to fruition.  As you work getting part of the plot ready to plant, if possible , mow the rest regularly to stop the weeds seeding themselves.  Leaving the cuttings on the ground will smother some more  weeds and put the nutrients back into the soil.  As spaces develop break up the surface to let in air and moisture and get soil activity going again as the cuttings are incorporated.  It's far easier than trying to tackle the whole area at once but you will be starting the soil conditioning and making the work easier as your planted area expands.

One place I worked the owners planted one seed potato in each space which broke up the soil, shaded out the weeds and gave them a small crop of new potatoes.  They then planted marrows where the potatoes had been, more shaded out weeds and courgettes and marrows through the summer with almost no work at all.

[javikha_4]

I debated for a while as to whether I should waste any more time responding
oooh luvvy

If you claim you were too weak to handle a spade, I have no reason to doubt you.However your other claims seem, ....how can i put it, 'less than credible'

First year and we had oodles of veg and no slugs. OK, so some weeds re-grew so we ensured that none went to seed and each year the patch was rotavated and anything "weedish" that had grown was dealt with the same way as before.

You grew oodles of veg and you ensured no 'weeds' went to seed - can't have been by rotavating then, since you had oodles of veg in the plot, if you picked them off by hand why not just remove the plant  as well?


you rotavate and rake anything plant like endlessly - good grief
it reminds me of a Larry Olivier quote to an exhausted Dustin Hoffman after running to 'prepare' for a scene by using method acting
'why not just act dear instead - said Larry?'
It's easier and less time consuming just digging up the original weed

Different weeds/plants seed throughout the season, so unless you hacked through these every few days they would fall and seed in the ground, or blow in the wind
The idea that there is one weed seeding time is fantasy

Salt was mainly used pre refrigeration because it dehydrates and destroys bacteria .bacteria in soil is essential for it to function, leaving aside the direct effects on plants salt would get washed away and leech into the soil, it would need to be replenished, whilst the residue builds up in the soil killing anything in its path

[kh-andrew]

Hi all,

This thread is getting a little off topic and heated. Please feel free to share your own opinions, but avoid hostile comments.
I would like to remind everyone that hostile comments are against our Board Usage Policy and Community Values.

Thanks!

[j_uk643]

OP

get the family down on the weekend, with as many spades, forks etc as you can muster,  and it will get done.

Forget the rotavator malarky, it's waste of time in my experience. 

[**bustysinclaire**]

---

@j_uk643 wrote:

OP

get the family down on the weekend, with as many spades, forks etc as you can muster,  and it will get done.

Forget the rotavator malarky, it's waste of time in my experience. 

---

Good idea about the family, lol xxx. Thank you 

Too late regarding the rotavator as I purchased one off eBay a couple of days ago and will take delivery on wednesday.☺

[**bustysinclaire**]

Today, I bought 2 tomatoes plants, 1 corgette plant, 1 cucumber plant and 6 runner bean plants.

I have a little greenhouse I can grow these items in, in grow bags while I get started on the hard work. Hubby likes his runner beans and has grown them in large tubs before so he's gonna do those again till we can get planting in the ground.

I also have a fairly large tree in the corner of the plot and I'm certain it is an apple tree.

[j_uk643]

excellent news, and a good idea re grow bags, and mini greenhouse.

The apple tree should be fairly low maintenance, but a useful source of produce.