13-02-2014 2:34 PM
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dave-lee-travis-trial-verdict-3140440
Let's hope he can put all this behind him now and get on with his life!
16-02-2014 4:44 PM
The film proved he was with his wife all the time.
Actually no it doesn't. The word used in the article is SUGGESTS.
Very different.
It's incremental legal value appears small.It's theatrical value slightly more
Not sure why some of the public deem certain celebs innocent, almost because they are celebs, but it appears so.
Possibly as some seem to live their life vicariously via such celebs, they feel a certain 'attachment'
As for Keir Starmers article ( pity it didn't quite make the Wrexam tard, or Cheshire Chav) I Would add, the vast majority of cases go through a magistrates conveyor belt system, some moving to CC.Of those the majority will never make national press, and possibly not even local, unless they contain some especially salacious aspect
So what you are talking about is a very small number of cases involving a minor celeb or two
I think that ought to be seen in context
Some need to get over the myth that there is a huge number of mainly females just waiting to make false allegations, against a few poor old celebs
About as genuine as cyber sheep
16-02-2014 6:20 PM
A bit late but I fell asleep last night.
@kiss*my*pixel wrote:
And how'd you know the men charged are telling the truth? Maybe in their tiny little minds it is the truth as they didn't then (and still don't) see anything wrong in what they did. They don't realise the havoc they caused to young girls' lives.
Was it "havoc"? Really? For some yes, it may have been, if they were particularly vulnerable, but for most women it was an unpleasant nuisance. In your case, you say you "put it behind you".
I cannot think of any woman who would fabricate such a charge. These things did happen (they do now too) but more so years ago). I've been on the receiving end of it, and it is really unpleasant.
There are plenty of women (and adolescent girls) who would fabricate precisely such a charge - then, and now. Particularly now. There are many male teachers whose careers have been ruined on the say-so of a spiteful pupil. And yes, I do know that there are genuine cases.
No-one would do anything at the time, because the workplace at the time was very male-dominated and the "guys" all stuck together, thinking it was oh, so funny!
At the time, older women would have told you to "just ignore it, love, you know what men are like"
I totally understand why women are now speaking up, they simply weren't believed before.
They were believed, but it wasn't considered important.
Perceptions and behaviours have changed, thankfully. I would hate for my daughter to have to endure such appalling behaviour - opinions (official ones, anyway) nowadays are different, I'm pleased to say, and we no longer live in the dark ages.
You are right, these days your daughter is highly unlikely to experience "groping" in the workplace.
However - she will be expected to sleep with every boy or man she goes out with.
There is still a long way to go, though.
Go where, though?
In the "dark ages", girls would be told to be careful, because "men are only after one thing". In these enlightened days, men have pretty much got the "one thing" on a plate. Given this fact, I can't help feeling that the modern condemnation of "such appalling behaviour" is more than a little hypocritical.
17-02-2014 1:54 PM
Duck - I can't be bothered to C&P your post - we'll be here all day just reading the same thing over and over (which actually, on these threads, we seem to be anyway, going round and round in circles)
First point - surely you must be able to see that the level of assault has a bearing on the amount of trauma caused. In my case I have made it quite plain that it wasn't huge, I found that a well-placed rear-thrust elbow in the ribs or a high heel ground into a toe normally did the trick. Some sexual assaults are far worse and should not be made light of, which is what you appear to be suggesting. My point in mentioning it was simply to say that most women have experienced it to some degree at some point in their lives. And it is not acceptable.
Second point - I agree there have been cases of a woman making false accusations against a man, but in the case of DLT (and WR and others) there have been several. In DLT's case, 10 or more. Are you suggesting they were all lying?
Third - older women would have told us to "just ignore it love, etc". The same probably happened to them, and by saying that, they were simply compounding the problem. Not entirely sure what point you are trying to make there. I agree with you, they did, quite wrongly.
Four - Sometimes they were believed, sometimes not, - but you're right, it wasn't considered important. Which is wrong!
Five - A daughter will now "be expected to sleep with every man or boy she goes out with". Do you have evidence to support such a preposterous notion? Expected by whom - by the boy or man? Who on earth decreed that? Oh, don't tell me - a man would have.
Six - Another preposterous statement which I feel needs further elightenment. You appear to have a pretty low opinion of the female population in general, judging by some of your comments. I cannot imagine what circles you mix with, but I can assure you not all "girls" act in the way you suggest.
To actually return to the thread itself - possibly the public are tired of these cases coming forward, they find them irksome and think the victims are fabricating stories. They don't want to imagine that these men they admired could possibly be guilty of anything untoward - it's far easier to think the women are overreacting or making it up. They don't want to admit that it has been acceptable and normal for many men to behave in this manner. In other words, they simply wish women would shut up and not make a fuss.
The jury were out for three days - this suggests they were undecided. An hour's deliberation with the same verdict would have given a more confident decision about no wrong-doing on his part.
As has been said many, many times, a verdict of "not guilty" is not a finding of innocence. It means that, according to the rules of evidence and the standard of proof required for a criminal conviction, the jury did not believe the evidence was enough for a guilty verdict. Juries can make mistakes. A civil case might have a different outcome. "Innocent until proven guilty" relates to the process of the trial eg, the burden of proof being on the prosecution. It means the prosecution has to prove the guilt of the accused, the accused does not have to prove his innocence. It doesn't mean that everyone found "not guilty" is innocent.
In any event, we're entitled to reach our own conclusions. Otherwise all those campaigns for miscarriages of justice for innocent people who have been previously convicted would be utterly pointless.
17-02-2014 2:08 PM
17-02-2014 7:45 PM
@kiss*my*pixel wrote:"in all honesty, most of us are guilty of prejudice in one form or another during the course of our lives"
That is so very true, Lola, no matter how hard we try not to be! Even when trying to keep an open mind for both sides of a story, it is very tricky not to veer off in one direction or another.
Are you saying that you have an open mind about this?
17-02-2014 8:23 PM
20-02-2014 11:57 AM
It's a wonder a load of other "celebities" haven't been roped in to the current witch-hunt?
Watch this video of Peter Kay miming and just see who's included? (yes, that's right, you're not mistaken):-
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
20-02-2014 7:02 PM
20-02-2014 7:10 PM
@cee-dee wrote:It's a wonder a load of other "celebities" haven't been roped in to the current witch-hunt?
Watch this video of Peter Kay miming and just see who's included? (yes, that's right, you're not mistaken):-
Yes I quite agree CD, especially as there appears to be a very famous JW included in there.
24-02-2014 10:17 AM
It's not over yet.
They're not letting go, they've decided DLT will face a retrial on the two charges on which the jury couldn't agree.
In spite of the lack of real evidence, they're determined to press on with wasting loadsa money.
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
24-02-2014 1:21 PM
24-02-2014 3:07 PM
25-02-2014 1:29 PM
@saasher2012 wrote:
Looks like a police line up!
Sure does - I always knew there was something dodgy about Sooty and Sweep 😛
25-02-2014 1:32 PM
27-02-2014 1:27 PM
Saw a picture of Dave Lee Travis in paper the other day,head in hands saying "maybe it will be over when im eighty"!!!!!.
WHAT A B********DY SHAME MY HEART BLEEDS FOR YOU DAVE..................... NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
on 28-02-2014 9:48 PM - last edited on 02-04-2014 10:42 AM by kshah008
Now you bring it up...
On a side note, fascinating how a law designed to protect children has resulted in a load of 'old' celebrities getting all the headlines based off of some potential 'fumbles' while the jailing of serial killer (making the world genuinely safer for everyone) passes by with barely a day's reporting and very little social interest.
06-03-2014 10:21 AM
The latest is that now we're being treated to the trial of Max Clifford.
http://news.sky.com/story/1221742/clifford-arrives-for-indecent-assault-trial
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
06-03-2014 12:16 PM
NOT HIM AGAIN,,,,,,round for second helpings,,,. BE DONE WITH IT AND LOCK THEM UP WE ALL KNOW THEIR GUILTY!!!!!!!!!. P***TS
28-03-2014 3:52 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26787306
Looks like they're determined to try to pin something on him.
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
28-03-2014 4:48 PM