Brexit never gonnae happen they way you think!

[celticthebhoys585]

Never in a way you brexiters thought it would. All the chamelons have been exposed,tight majority vote.Country and goverment in chaos.

It's the money men that will decide as always! What made you think they'd let the people decide-never have done in centuries!

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@mikes*corvettes wrote:

It might have escaped your attention or you might not be old enough to remember but we were around and did very well before all this EU nonsense and will be around and do very well once it's gone mamarries up.

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I am old enough to remember - old enough to remember the 'brain drain', the three day week, the closed shop dockyards, the cars nobody wanted to buy, the slums, the racism - I'm even old enough to remember rationing on sweets!

This was also the period of 'Cathy Come Home' and being jobless, homeless or mentally ill was a real stigma and the level of help or protection compared to today's level was minuscule.

I remember 'you've never had it so good' 

My standard of living, along with most in this country, is vastly better than it was in the 50's, 60's and most of the 70s.  Yes we did OK but to claim we did 'very well' is viewing that period with rose tinted glasses.

[joe_bloggs*]

I watched Mhairi Blacks speech on trident,very good,its great to see more young dedicated people coming into politics!

[fallen-archie]

Some of her Uni colleagues are less than complimentary about her ability, anyone can make a plea to human sentiment over Nuclear weapons but what is her alternative, a dignified death upholding a belief while trying to reason with a Kalashnikov. Great to see young politicians but they too have. Life lessons to learn, the threat posed by real enemies will never be reflected in a Glasgow Uni debating society.

[joe_bloggs*]

Nuclear weapons are not a deterent are they? just look at France

[celticthebhoys585]

What are you talking about-55 MP's is not enough to manage 5 million?

SNP have 63 seats the rest make it upto 129 seats in Scottish Parliament. Scottish Parliament is run by the whole parliament. They hold 56 seats in Westminster lol.That is in proportion to UK as a whole around 8.6%  of UK parlimentary seats. 

As i've said Faslane in another post should be a super duper conventional base for tri service activties which would add 100's thousands of jobs, not a paltry 8000 . But you would rather have a useless nuclear missile system against the wishes of past military men like me and the current MOD , who want more money spent on their troops,ships,aircraft. But hey ho we don't matter as long as Westminster get their way.So again your off the mark!

Those who seek to profit lmao - isn't that the way it always is,but if McCrone report was published back in early seventies we wouldn't be having this convo.

[celticthebhoys585]

Aye as long as their not on your doorstep eh. Why not take them and place them at Portsmouth if your so keen to have these useless pieces of kit? Didn't help any of our troops in Gulf 1 or Gulf 2, Falklands, Ireland and having Polaris as deterrent when they couldn't get decent rifles, body armour, armoured vehicles,helicopters and died in a conflict so far from home. Some of you have absolutely no idea what the troops have to endure over the years to protect your so-called freedom.

You's talk the talk and never make that walk into battle! It's an absolute disgrace that service personnel numbers have been depleted over the last 40 years,no aircraft carriers,not enough aircraft,not enough personnel, kit is shocking to say the least and you want us to support nuclear weapons expenditure which is obscene.

[mikes*corvettes]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

I am old enough to remember - old enough to remember the 'brain drain', the three day week, the closed shop dockyards, the cars nobody wanted to buy, the slums, the racism - I'm even old enough to remember rationing on sweets!

1..The brain drain still going on today, highly skilled people leaving because low paid immigrants taking over their jobs.

2..Three day week, reason unions, but thankfully Heath and Thatcher clipped their wings.

3..Closed shop dockyards, once again lays with the unions.

4..The Mini sold over 5.5 million units worldwide, 1.5 million in the UK.

    a..The Cortina and Escort over 1 million units each, just to name a few

     Someone was buying these cars.

This was also the period of 'Cathy Come Home' and being jobless, homeless or mentally ill was a real stigma and the level of help or protection compared to today's level was minuscule.

1..So we built a whole society based on welfare where people have  become completely reliant on the state, mental health and the stigma associated with it was not only confined to the UK it was worldwide then.

I remember 'you've never had it so good' 

Which is true, back then we could leave our doors unlocked and the kids could play out in the street with no fear.

My standard of living, along with most in this country, is vastly better than it was in the 50's, 60's and most of the 70s.  Yes we did OK but to claim we did 'very well' is viewing that period with rose tinted glasses.

This is called evolution and technology, in the 70's we lived better than they did in the 20's and now we live better than we did in the 70's and if the human race is still around in 2070 they will no doubt live better than we do now, so your point is moot.

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But what has any of that got to do with our economic standing before all this EU claptrap ? 

[fallen-archie]

The Bhoy has too much time on his hands, the reason for sighting the deterrent is geographical, deep water and access to the North Atlantic, All this nimby rubbish is just pathetic. To have a party like the SNP strutting around making claims it cannot justify and smugly sitting in both houses cocking and crowing with no thought for Scots living South of the border is plain selfish. We have always coexisted in a productive way those who seek to destroy that are deluded.

[geo1pat1]

"You's talk the talk and never make that walk into battle!"

One of us has !

[john.b74]

Ha.ha.

I remember 'you've never had it so good' 

Which is true, back then we could leave our doors unlocked and the kids could play out in the street with no fear.

[mikes*corvettes]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3699773/amp/Nigel-Farage-jets-Republic...

[fallen-archie]

And I thought it was just the young generation who felt they were natural superstars.

[fallen-archie]

Angus Robertson thinks Scotland is on the cusp of Independance, What a complete fool he is, Scotland Voted 55-45 against independence and that is the end of it for now. Robertson, Salmond and Sturgeon need to wind their necks in and start to work with the rest of the UK to make ALL of this Islands residents more  prosperous and more integrated. Divide and rule is so Passé, we are what we are.

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@john.b74 wrote:

Ha.ha.

I remember 'you've never had it so good' 

Which is true, back then we could leave our doors unlocked and the kids could play out in the street with no fear.

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You really believe that?

Not in most parts you couldn't and kids were far from safe except possibly from traffic.

[mikes*corvettes]

Don't need to believe it, I lived through it so what's your point.

[upthecreekyetagain]

My point is that we, myself included, often look back with rose tinted glasses. 

The "you've never had it so good" era has to be one of those periods.  Less than two years after that speech by Macmillan the country was in financial difficulties - interest rates increased, wages were frozen and the Profumo scandal saw the end of Macmillan.  

A few years later the Labour government led by Wilson was forced to devalue the pound - this was the period where we started spending more than we earned as a country, something which has continued ever since.

As for being able to leave your doors unlocked then I guess this depended where you lived - in Manchester you certainly couldn't - we were burgled 4 times in just 3 years!  I've lived in my current house in Surrey for just under 40 years and we have had just 1 attempted burglary.  Difficult to draw any conclusions from that - different areas, different times.

As for the safety of children it is generally accepted that child protection during the 50s and 60s was far inferior to current day standards.  Figures for child deaths due to abuse during the 50s and 60s is difficult to ascertain as records weren't kept however they are currently less than a third of what they were in the 70s with a much larger population.

[fallen-archie]

Clearly we all have our personal experiences and whilst valid they do not necessarily reflect the true situation at that time. I lived on the outskirts of town and we were never burgled. During the summer holidays and from a very early age we would go pretty much wherever we wanted to and rarely faced any form of threat. Corporal punishment was commonplace and so to was heavy discipline within some homes which today would be regarded as abuse. Roads were generally quieter and riding a bike was not as hazardous as now. Many of the things we did are no longer possible as things have moved on, Health and Safety has intervened as has legislation designed to prevent or manage abuse and abusive behaviour. What we do have now is more Gun crime despite draconian controls, Everything we do is increasingly monitored, I have no idea who my local policeman is but I do have access to a computer and can ask pretty much anything.

So what has all this got to do with Brexit? Not much imo. We have made our bed now we must sleep in it. Both sides will watch developments with interest and jump on anything they don't like. Judging by the queues at Dover this morning, stricter Border controls will become the norm, Holiday taking more stressful but what are the alternatives. 

Perhaps what we really need is an outbreak of bubonic plague, something that would concentrate minds on a common threat and purpose while reducing the popuation at the same time. That might sound radical but it might just work.

[upthecreekyetagain]

The only thing any of this has to do with Brexit is the argument put forward by some that we did alright before we joined the EU therefore we will do ok now.  As you say though things have moved on and we face different problems than we did previously.

The idea that we lived in a social Utopia before the EU era is a myth.

[john.b74]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/684131/brexit-eu-referendum-tsunami-france-italy-netherlands

[mikes*corvettes]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

The only thing any of this has to do with Brexit is the argument put forward by some that we did alright before we joined the EU therefore we will do ok now.  As you say though things have moved on and we face different problems than we did previously.

The idea that we lived in a social Utopia before the EU era is a myth.

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You're the one who took the thread off tangent once again by trying to twist peoples words.

I wrote we did very well before all this EU claptrap, which for most people reading it in it's correct context means:

"WE DID VERY WELL ECONOMICALLY BEFORE ALL THIS EU BOVINE MANURE".

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@fallen-archie wrote:

Clearly we all have our personal experiences and whilst valid they do not necessarily reflect the true situation at that time. I lived on the outskirts of town and we were never burgled. During the summer holidays and from a very early age we would go pretty much wherever we wanted to and rarely faced any form of threat. Corporal punishment was commonplace and so to was heavy discipline within some homes which today would be regarded as abuse.

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Same here in London, we used to play in the streets and no one bothered us, if we misbehaved then one of the neighbours would give us a swift clip round the ear and send us home, if we were silly enough to tell our mum then we would end up with another clip round the other ear.

Before the local police started driving round in Panda cars our local bobby used to use a pushbike, to protect him from bad weather he carried a heavy rolled up Macintosh with him, if he caught us misbehaving or if we dared give him any cheek he would whack us on the head with it.

Didn't do us any harm.