Anne Maguire murder.

[merehazle]

Will Cornick the teenager was 15 years old when he stabbed teacher Ann Maguire,61, to death as she taught at a class at Corpus Christi Catholic Colledge, in leeds in April.

He excchanged messages with a friend early on Christmas day on Facebook. ''In those messages he spoke of 'brutally killing' Mrs Maguire and spending the rest of his life in jail so as not to have to worry about life or money.''                                            

He continues to show no remorse.  If ever someone was evil it must be him.  The only sentence for him surly is a whole life sentence.  

At the moment the judge say's 20 years in prison, and he may serve a whole life sentence. Why give him any hope? He did not give Ann, any. And who should have this monster living next door to them without knowing it?  The judges  perhaps?

Warning there is a picture of Will Cornick on my attachment.

[lambsy_uk]

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@evoman3957 wrote:

"Because if that is not done we are no better than the offenders".

Not true in my opinion, because the punishment handed out by the "WE" you allude to is called justice. If a Civilized society can't adhere to a fair system of justice, then it adheres to no system of justice at all..........and FAIR should mean fair for the "Victims" first and foremost.

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Surely a fair system means being fair to all! If a kid took another kid's sweets would you lock them up for 20 years? Would it be fair on the perp to do so or do we not care about being fair to the perp? I believe we do!

[saasher2012]

I'm not interested in what label or category you want to slot him into ,he's murdered another human being without just cause , not out of defence or fear of his life or even protecting his family. She did nothing to warrent the ending of her life in such circumstances nor neither did the kids who will probably be scarred for life having had to witness it.!!. He made his choice, they had no say in it.

[lambsy_uk]

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@**caution**opinion_ahead wrote:

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@evoman3957 wrote:

That's why there should be hope for him, despite the horror of his actions and the grief caused.

But there's no hope for Anne Maguire........is there !!. I cannot countenance the sort of mindset people have, that always seems to grant the offenders / perpetrators the concern they never showed their victims.

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Of course things can never be made "right" for the victim.  That's a given.

Are you saying we should all think in the same way as the perpetrator?  That because they had no concern for their victims, we should not have compassion for others?  I've never understood people who stand around braying at departing police vehicles holding offenders?  What is going through their minds?  Do they think they are helping anything in any way at all?  

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I know exactly what's going through their minds; they feel they need to be seen to be angered and disgusted, they feel the need to be seen to conform to what they believe are basic social norms. It is the weak of 'mind' and 'will' who do such because they care about how they appear to others and have a need to be seen to conform.

It is also those at the lower end of the social scale who have found someone they can identify as being beneath them, they are chomping at the bit to be able to show that they are not on the bottom wrung, 'that filth in the van are the true low-life'.

Let's face it, what kind of person chases a van shouting Scum?! (the same mentality as those who attack paediatricians!)

[lambsy_uk]

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@evoman3957 wrote:

To "Pay for" as in "retribution", is to receive, at least in equal measure, the same as the Victim; in my few, anything less is to Betray the Victim; or at least to put a lesser value on THEIR life, than you put on the Perpetrators. That's why, in My earlier post, I said a large majority of People who actually work with Criminals ie. Prison Officers & Police support Capital Punishment. That, at least, is making them pay the same as they made some innocent person pay, the LEAST that should be expected. As well as THAT fact, society also wastes no more time, effort, grief etc. etc. keeping them alive; one minute longer than they have to. I except people have their own views on Capital punishment, but when you've actually spent many years of your life working with criminals and know what makes them "Tick"; the views you develop are slightly more realistic than the views some green party activist might have about a "Tree" lets say.

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If the championing of capital punishment comes from a better understanding of what makes them tick then doesn't that mean that the purpose of the punishment is to rid us of that person and any future consideration or threat thereof, rather than being an act of balancing the punishment with the crime?!

Surely if it was just an act of balancing punishment with crime then knowing what made them tick would be an insignificant factor!

[lambsy_uk]

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saasher2012 wrote:

 If you think that I feel compassion for this murderer then you are sadly mistaken,

It's not about having compassions it's about having understanding. If we can understand what's going on and recognise signs then we may be able to prevent future instances!

I say this if you have the capacity to commit murder you are never going to change .the mere fact that these people have to have a new identity to protect them from the public speaks volumes,

Yes it does, it speaks volumes about a society that can not be trusted!

[lambsy_uk]

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@joe_bloggs* wrote:

I don't know if anyone has read the judges sentencing remarks:

http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/r-v-cornick.pdf

Seems to tell us a lot; a personality disorder with psychopathic traits, he's not sound of mind!

This means he did it because there's something wrong with him rather than as a result of any rational thought process!

It suggests he's not capable of the same thought processes normal people go through.

[**caution**opinion_ahead]

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@ed_blackadder_1 wrote:
How do you know they are no longer a threat. How many murderers have been released only to kill again. This lad both planned and boasted about what he was going to do and has shown no remorse, he actually said job done after he did it. This was premeditated murder not an accident spur of the moment or self defence. He knew exactly what he was doing so surely he knew what the consequences would be in fact it was what he wanted.
The teacher wont come back in 20 years and her family have to live with this for the rest of their lives.
I am not in favour of capital punishment across the board but in the case of premeditated murder proved without doubt then I think this should be the case.

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He showed no remorse ... at the time!  At that point, his body would have been flooded with adrenaline and testosterone.  His mind would have been very agitated.  This is a teen, not fully developed emotionally.

All I am saying is, in a yr, or 5, or 20, he may feel differently.  It is then that trained experts need to assess whether he has any remorse or not, and whether he is still a danger to others.

Most premediatated murderers serve far less than 20 yrs, even for crimes that involve sexual assault, kidnap (with all the psychological fear that entails, to both the victim and their family, not knowing what has happened).  Those who serve over 20 yrs have generally killed a child and it is usually not their first serious offence, and they were fully grown adults at the time of the crime.

[lambsy_uk]

What is really sad is that people saw all this going on, he spoke to people about his fantacies and yet little or nothing was done!

[lambsy_uk]

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@ed_blackadder_1 wrote:
How do you know they are no longer a threat. How many murderers have been released only to kill again. This lad both planned and boasted about what he was going to do and has shown no remorse, he actually said job done after he did it. This was premeditated murder not an accident spur of the moment or self defence. He knew exactly what he was doing so surely he knew what the consequences would be in fact it was what he wanted.
The teacher wont come back in 20 years and her family have to live with this for the rest of their lives.
I am not in favour of capital punishment across the board but in the case of premeditated murder proved without doubt then I think this should be the case.

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The point is this type of perp is more likely to kill again than most, but the premeditation of it is irrelevant. He is more likely to kill again because he is a psychopath who is likely to always have such notions as opposed to most murders, where the act is still premeditated but the victim is targetted for a specific reason (rational thought process) and so is unlikely to be repeated, as opposed to an irrational thought process that could be repeated!

[lambsy_uk]

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@saasher2012 wrote:
I keep saying convicted murderers! I never mentioned accidental or any others , I also explained about this particular murder on a couple of occasions, it was a cold blooded thought out murder!!!!.each case is different But those who murder in likewise circumstances should get no second chance as I also said before!!.

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It was a planned murder but it was not thought out in the same way a rational person would think it out.

Most premeditated murders have some kind of rational reasoning behind them; love triangle, money and greed, just can't live with someone anymore, honour killings, gang violence, jealousy................................ and so on.

Then you have those, as in this case, that stem from mental illness that leads to irrational responses; anger issues, psychotic state of mind and morbid fixations. This murder was not so much thought out but thoughtless, which is also why it makes him so dangerous! It was planned but not thought trough in the same way a rational person would think it through! It provided for an irrational need that resided with him.

[saasher2012]

Even more reason to keep the little begger inside then!

[lambsy_uk]

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@merehazle wrote:

There is a common teaching among Christians that claims we are to offer unconditional forgiveness to all who do evil against us. That has become patently obvious by some comments on this thread. Sorry, but some are NOT forgivable IMO.

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I believe we need to be concerned with understanding rather than forgiving.

[lambsy_uk]

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@saasher2012 wrote:
That's my point! If they served life for taking a life, they wouldn't need protection & more importantly they would be out of the society that they obviously don't want to conform too!. I would rather my money went to keeping them incarcerated than to come out with the chance even if it was a slim one of repeating this horrific crime.if you read back you have the opinion of an ex prison warden, perhaps if the do gooders listened to them they might get a clearer view of these offenders, I'm fed up of people saying ," oh poor boy he's only 15yrs old" he was old enough to think about murdering , boasting & carrying it out to its full horrific conclusion. No compassion was shown to his innocent victim. & none should be shown to him. & at the risk of repeating myself, perhaps instead of people running to his defence, they should direct it towards his victim & the children who had to witness this poor boys actions!!.
If it's found that he's criminally insane, he should be prison hospitalised for life, if he is found to be of sound mind then I for one don't want this object let out on the streets after a few years!!.

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I have no sympathy for him, just a recognition that we should try to understand. Better understanding can lead to prevention, also we should ask why the outward signs he showed were ignored? We need to look at the lessons learned here so we can deal with things better in the future!

[lambsy_uk]

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@saasher2012 wrote:
I'm not interested in what label or category you want to slot him into ,he's murdered another human being without just cause , not out of defence or fear of his life or even protecting his family. She did nothing to warrent the ending of her life in such circumstances nor neither did the kids who will probably be scarred for life having had to witness it.!!. He made his choice, they had no say in it.

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Did he make a choice? Did he have a say in it in the same way we regard choices and rationality? If you have an overwhelming impulse then is it not the case that your ability to choose is being diminished?

Labelling him is for our benefit, so that we can recognise such traits in future!

[lambsy_uk]

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@saasher2012 wrote:
Even more reason to keep the little begger inside then!

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Absolutely!

I can't say for sure that he won't be a changed person in 20 years time but the liklihood is less than with most others.

[saasher2012]

Here's a label for you! Murderer!!

[cee-dee]

The buzz-word surrounding many "things" in the World today is "Understanding".

People try to "understand" something and settle on what they perceive is the "reason" and come out with all sorts of reasoning about what happened and their take on what to do about it.

There's far too much of this "understanding" because some events cannot be explained rationally because they were irrational happenings by irrational people in the first place.

Take note of the words of the song:-

"They can see no reasons, 'Cause there are no reasons, What reason do you need?"

[0125arwen]

What a waste of life, it's all very sad.

But life should be just that, life.

[saasher2012]

As you say you can't be sure what he would do in twenty years time, & many a do gooder has been on the receiving end of the very person they were trying to help!
If you are going to try to compare stealing a bag of sweets to a murder then I will give you another just as silly.
A dog through no fault of its own & acting on instinct attacks a human & kills them is automatically destroyed!! End of!!.

[lambsy_uk]

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@saasher2012 wrote:
Here's a label for you! Murderer!!

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Yes but some potential murderers are easier to spot than others and this lad's propensity to harm should have been recognised and guarded against some time ago, in my opinion, which is where the label would have been useful.

What if his issues had been identified and dealth with earlier? We'd not have lost the life of a teacher and we would have prevented someone becoming a murderer; I'm sure that would have been a good thing!