Anne Maguire murder.

[merehazle]

Will Cornick the teenager was 15 years old when he stabbed teacher Ann Maguire,61, to death as she taught at a class at Corpus Christi Catholic Colledge, in leeds in April.

He excchanged messages with a friend early on Christmas day on Facebook. ''In those messages he spoke of 'brutally killing' Mrs Maguire and spending the rest of his life in jail so as not to have to worry about life or money.''                                            

He continues to show no remorse.  If ever someone was evil it must be him.  The only sentence for him surly is a whole life sentence.  

At the moment the judge say's 20 years in prison, and he may serve a whole life sentence. Why give him any hope? He did not give Ann, any. And who should have this monster living next door to them without knowing it?  The judges  perhaps?

Warning there is a picture of Will Cornick on my attachment.

[evoman3957]

To "Pay for" as in "retribution", is to receive, at least in equal measure, the same as the Victim; in my few, anything less is to Betray the Victim; or at least to put a lesser value on THEIR life, than you put on the Perpetrators. That's why, in My earlier post, I said a large majority of People who actually work with Criminals ie. Prison Officers & Police support Capital Punishment. That, at least, is making them pay the same as they made some innocent person pay, the LEAST that should be expected. As well as THAT fact, society also wastes no more time, effort, grief etc. etc. keeping them alive; one minute longer than they have to. I except people have their own views on Capital punishment, but when you've actually spent many years of your life working with criminals and know what makes them "Tick"; the views you develop are slightly more realistic than the views some green party activist might have about a "Tree" lets say.

[saasher2012]

With respect that's a load of tosh, we are talking murder here nothing more ,nothing less, this person walked in with a a hidden knife & murdered a woman , he stabbed her repeatedly , it was thought out & planned not a spur of the minute crime,if you think you could ever do that & show no feelings then I worry about you! If you think that I feel compassion for this murderer then you are sadly mistaken, I say this if you have the capacity to commit murder you are never going to change .the mere fact that these people have to have a new identity to protect them from the public speaks volumes, they can't all be wrong!.& before you say this is an emotive issue, then I say thank God it is, otherwise it would lose the capacity to shock, I agree with the other poster let's think a lot more about the victims & their families,not the murderer, they deserve all they get & more, I don't care if they never again commit this type of crime, they should not have murdered in the first place, no second chance for convicted murderers!. Full stop!!!.

[fallen-archie]

Yes it was murder it was horrific, yet I cannot help thinking about how many dis functional young people are out there. There was another murder which involved a young lass who was a goth, she was targeted because of the way she dressed. Then there were the youths in Warrington who killed a guy for protecting his property, Ultimately all are murderers but why, what is it I their make up that drives them to do such acts? Are we responsible I any way, too tolerant or too intolerant, I wish I knew.

[**caution**opinion_ahead]

---

@saasher2012 wrote:
... we are talking murder here nothing more ,nothing less, this person walked in with a a hidden knife & murdered a woman , he stabbed her repeatedly , it was thought out & planned not a spur of the minute crime

---

Indeed!  And a 20 yr minimum seems fair as a sentence.  (Bear in mind, the average served for murder is between 7 and 9 yrs.)

[saasher2012]

Life should mean life,he deprived his victim of hers!!.

[**caution**opinion_ahead]

So, do you think every person who kills should be in prison for life?  What about causing accidental death, say in an RTA?  Or death by negligance, rather than intention?

To have that many lifers in the system would break it.  This teen may live to be 85 or more.  That would be 70 yrs.  Think of the cost.

If a person is no longer a threat, surely it is better they be reintegrated?

[joe_bloggs*]

I don't know if anyone has read the judges sentencing remarks:

http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/r-v-cornick.pdf

The judge said:

  we heard one pupil describe her as
“really caring...she sort of couldn’t do enough for people,
she was just really lovely to everybody.”

Another pupil
described her as “more of a friend than a teacher”. And
another, when asked what she was like, said “she were
wonderful. She were just...she
was so nice to everyone, she
were kind, she’d always stay back late...her main goal for
everyone in that class, she just
wanted them to come on top
and achieve what she knew they could achieve and you
could tell she loved it. You could tell that she loved doing
what she were doing every day.” 

These words from the mouths of children who have just seen one of their best friends murdered in front of them

Thats why we have the justice system to sum up in a balanced and considered way,and thats what stands between us and a lynch mob

[**caution**opinion_ahead]

---

@joe_bloggs* wrote:

Thats why we have the justice system to sum up in a balanced and considered way,and thats what stands between us and a lynch mob

---

I agree.

[ed_blackadder_1]

How do you know they are no longer a threat. How many murderers have been released only to kill again. This lad both planned and boasted about what he was going to do and has shown no remorse, he actually said job done after he did it. This was premeditated murder not an accident spur of the moment or self defence. He knew exactly what he was doing so surely he knew what the consequences would be in fact it was what he wanted.
The teacher wont come back in 20 years and her family have to live with this for the rest of their lives.
I am not in favour of capital punishment across the board but in the case of premeditated murder proved without doubt then I think this should be the case.

[saasher2012]

I keep saying convicted murderers! I never mentioned accidental or any others , I also explained about this particular murder on a couple of occasions, it was a cold blooded thought out murder!!!!.each case is different But those who murder in likewise circumstances should get no second chance as I also said before!!.

[saasher2012]

Further to that , no I don't think these objects should be released to have the chance to wreak havoc on the public& once again with respect how you can compare accidental deaths with this case Beggers belief !

[ed_blackadder_1]

Back to Anne Maguires murder. If this lad was released he would have to be protected and given a new identity. This can be problematic just look at the case of the 2 boys who murdered Jaime Bulger. Both options involve man power and money and this boy would again be the centre of attention.

[merehazle]

---

@fallen-archie wrote:
Yes it was murder it was horrific, yet I cannot help thinking about how many dis functional young people are out there. There was another murder which involved a young lass who was a goth, she was targeted because of the way she dressed. Then there were the youthsinWarrington who killed a guy for protecting his property, Ultimately all are murderers but why, what is it I their make up that drives them to do such acts? Are we responsible I any way, too tolerant or too intolerant, I wish I knew.

---

Well...what drives good people to do good?  And what drives evil people to do evil? 

Well... there's your answer...  GOOD  and  BAD.

It seems If your lucky you are evil here in the UK, when you reflect on some of the sentences given.

If you are unlucky you might be in a country that has Sharia law.  (well that's arguable on some cases like these two).

When we forgive evil we do not excuse it, we do not tolerate it, we do not smother it. We look evil full in the face, call it what it is HORROR !

There is a common teaching among Christians that claims we are to offer unconditional forgiveness to all who do evil against us. That has become patently obvious by some comments on this thread. Sorry, but some are NOT forgivable IMO.

Remembering the James Bulger case, when those two 10 year-olds took that 2 year-old and smashed him to death with what ever they could find is enough for me (just pause and picture that scene and the screams of what was no more than a baby) to know that pure EVIL exists.  No such thing as a Devil. or God.  It's either there or not when we are born, or even before IMO.  

[fallen-archie]

If only it were as simple as that. What makes a Sociopath? What makes a psychopath, is the prevalence of this type of behaviour lesser or greater than it was. Can it be as simple as good or bad or have we inadvertently created the problem by our Liberal ideas when bringing up children. There is no comparison these days and we tend to treat children as adults long before they actually mature. Is that right or for some does it have a negative impact?

[lambsy_uk]

---

@saasher2012 wrote:

As to the Bulger case the sentence they received & the care & attention they had after being released didn't stop one of them from ending up in trouble again , maybe not murder but hardly the sort of person you'd want living near you 

---

Which is exactly why they need an assumed name, otherwise every local rent-a-mob would be their 15 minutes of fame!

[al**bear]

Seems a very severe minimum sentence compaired to others

[lambsy_uk]

---

@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

---

@cee-dee wrote:

Hmmmmm, evil eh?

I've looked up a few "definitions" of an evil person and I think the following isn't far off the mark?:-

Is consistently self-deceiving, with the intent of avoiding guilt and maintaining a self image of perfection.

This would suggest a mental problem

Deceives others as a consequence of their own self-deception.

The same definition basically as the first

Psychologically projects his or her evils and sins onto very specific targets, scapegoating those targets while treating everyone else normally.

Spiritual definition which to an atheist implies a mental problem

Commonly hates with the pretense of love, for the purposes of self-deception as much as the deception of others.

Same as first definition

Abuses political or emotional power ("the imposition of one's will upon others by overt or covert coercion").

An example of the influence of external influences - "power corrupts, absolute power . . . ." - or as David Brin said, ". . . it's more true that power attracts the corruptible.  The sane are usually attracted by other things than power."

Maintains a high level of respectability and lies incessantly in order to do so

Not sure how that is a definition of evil but the need to 'maintain a high level of respectability' suggests an individual influenced by external forces

Is consistent in his or her sins. Evil people are defined not so much by the magnitude of their sins, but by their consistency (of destructiveness.

Spiritual definition - what is a sin?

Is unable to think from the viewpoint of their victim.

Lack of empathy is a recognised mental problem.

Has a covert intolerance to criticism and other forms of narcissitic injury.

Again suggests a mental problem

---

I don't disagree with any of the above but they are all addressing 'evil' as an adjective not a noun.

As I said earlier I find the concept of 'evil' difficult to accept as an entity.  

Of course you can use the word as a description of a persons character or actions but doing so is simply saying they lack morality, empathy and/or are mentally ill.

---

Yes I was thinking that some of those definitions were a bit loose. I don't actually think any of them are a definition of evil on their own but as a whole they may create the profile of someone who is evil.

I tend to identify evil with sociopathy or psychopathy; people who are self-obsesed and are unable to empathise or sympathise. So again I'd also align it with mental ilness rather than some stand-alone entity called Evil!

[saasher2012]

That's my point! If they served life for taking a life, they wouldn't need protection & more importantly they would be out of the society that they obviously don't want to conform too!. I would rather my money went to keeping them incarcerated than to come out with the chance even if it was a slim one of repeating this horrific crime.if you read back you have the opinion of an ex prison warden, perhaps if the do gooders listened to them they might get a clearer view of these offenders, I'm fed up of people saying ," oh poor boy he's only 15yrs old" he was old enough to think about murdering , boasting & carrying it out to its full horrific conclusion. No compassion was shown to his innocent victim. & none should be shown to him. & at the risk of repeating myself, perhaps instead of people running to his defence, they should direct it towards his victim & the children who had to witness this poor boys actions!!.
If it's found that he's criminally insane, he should be prison hospitalised for life, if he is found to be of sound mind then I for one don't want this object let out on the streets after a few years!!.

[lambsy_uk]

---

@saasher2012 wrote:
If we had the answers then there would be no problem, as it is we don't & these whatever you wish to call them are allowed out into society, not all but some will commit other offences .i do feel that people should be allowed to know what type of criminal they are living next to. & yes I know that would make it difficult for them, but I'd rather that than any of the children should be put in danger because of lack of knowledge.
I'm sorry I disagree, many people have troubled minds but don't go around murdering people, & at 15 yrs old he should know right from wrong not only by stabbing & killing but a defenceless woman, I don't think anyone could find a valid excuse for this act of senseless murder!.

---

Does a psychopath have the same notions of right and wrong as others do?

I don't believe we're talking of a troubled mind but a totally different mind!

[lambsy_uk]

---

@cee-dee wrote:

"Because if that is not done we are no better than the offenders."

I can't go along with that because that's at the root of the continued problem. That line has been trotted out umpteen times  "in refusal" after "proper" punishment has been demanded for all sorts of crimes.

---

Why do you seek to punish people who have mental illness, are we not supposed to treat them, and treat them equally as those who have physical illness?!