A final message from Earth?

[cee-dee]

Some people want to add a "final" message to the Voyager spacecraft but what do you think?

http://news.sky.com/story/1579065/greetings-aliens-a-final-message-from-earth

Who do they think might "find" the spacecraft? Surely any recovery would have to be done in space? If the craft headed in to any "occupied" Planet, wouldn't that Planet have to have an atmosphere of some sort which would cause the craft to burn up as it entered?

As the craft are travelling at nearly 40,000 miles per hour, how do "they" expect them to survive any "planetfall" leaving enough of the craft intact so that "someone" can read the data on/in it? Seems a daft idea to me.

[evoman3957]

Well all I know is that the Earth is approx. 4.6 Billion years old, starting in just one quarter of that time; the following will begin:

http://io9.com/5871387/what-will-happen-when-the-sun-dies

The very least we need to be able to do, is to be able to travel at the speed of light. THEN, we MAY unlock some of Einstein's theory of relativity.........perhaps to find it was just theory. However, should some or all of it be true; travelling at the speed of light MAY also effect Time.......and therefore bring another dimension into travel capabilities. The problem is there's a lot of ifs and buts and we've come next to nowhere ( in relation to the task at hand ) so far.  In the mean time, time marches on towards one DEFINITE outcome.

[suzieseaside]

I don't know, you can only see abstracts of most scientfic journals on the net, without paying for the full article, but I'd put money on the scentists in that field having a better idea than Joe public.

How accurate would you say is your opinion?

Anyway, it's hypothetical with regards to aliens since we don't know what types of aliens might be out there. Perhaps many kinds so as well as organic life forms there may be aliens that are the product of advanced evolution of Artificial Intelligence with no emotion. Without emotions humour would seem to be pointless.

[evoman3957]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity

The above is not as difficult to understand as it originally looks ( ignore the formula ) and scroll down to the chart. The "Escape Velocity" of Earth is approx. 25,000 miles per hour, the "Escape Velocity" of Saturn is approx. 3 times that of Earth.......so 75,000 miles per hour. That means that if anybody landed on Saturn, they would have to be able to travel at a speed of 75,000 miles per hour; in order to get off of it again. As we haven't been able to attain speeds anywhere near that, it might be a good idea to start there.  If there are ANY life forms out in the universe, they will either be stuck on their "Rock"...as we are; or they will be way ahead of us and the only reason they would want to come here, would be to colonise our Planet...........because the events outline in my previous thread will happen to their Sun also.

[cee-dee]

Some interesting comments in the last few posts.

I've been saying for many years (as old hands will know) that travelling at the speed of light is far too slow to get anywhere in space. The nearest star is 4½ light years away (OK, the red dwarf in that star system is a bit closer) and from what I've read, there's no chance of much life in that particular star system.

Any beings capable of getting up to that speed will also have to invent a system of stopping so there's many problems to be overcome. Couple that with avoiding getting destroyed by the multitude of debris kicking about in space and the problems are mounting up? Sheilds up? Rather than being used solely for defence, you'd need shields to avoid damage from even the most tiny bit of debris. See meteors hitting the atmosphere here at 100,000 MPH or more? Think what one of those would do to a spacecraft unlucky enough to hit one. OK, so most meteors come from our own Solar System but random bits of debris are kicking about in space.

Rather than being big, thinking logically any space travelling beings are more likely to be small unless Star Trek becomes reality.

[bankhaunter]

Windows in the ISS have had to be replaced because of damage by flecks of paint.

Travelling in space will certainly be a long term idea, in order to invite someone to a wedding who lived near Alpha Centuri you would have to know the date many years in advance.

It would be more a case of a colonised space station home which moved rather than a means of transport.

Other more way out forms of getting around may have disadvantages.

I teleported home one night
With Ron and Sid and Meg.
Ron stole Meggie's heart away
And I got Sidney's leg.

[023mjc]

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@bankhaunter wrote:

 a lander has been placed on a comet travelling at 55,000 kph.

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But they still can't make the "bagging area" function properly in Asda.

[bankhaunter]

They have to do that, in daily life nothing must be too efficient, it's a rule.

For example when the local Coop revamped all their tills, they made sure that the bit at the end of the belt where customers would put their baskets while they off loaded the shopping onto the belt, was only half the width of the basket so one hand would always have to hold it in place.

[023mjc]

And the slope at the other end - so your bags won't stand up while you try to pack them.

[upthecreekyetagain]

Time scales appear to have been disregarded in this discussion.  The mechanical age can be measured in hundreds of years, flight in not much more than a hundred years, electronics in decades and likewise space travel.

If/when these probes escape the solar system they could travel for another billion years.  Add to that the concept that other intelligent life may have evolved billions of years before mankind then discussions about how easy or hard it may be for them to 'dicover' these probes, or that they may be a danger in advertising our existence is most likely a pointless exercise. 

We cant even predict what life will be like thirty years in advance let alone in a hundred or a thousand years time.  What hope of predicting conditions in a billion years time?

[artful_dodgings]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

We cant even predict what life will be like thirty years in advance let alone in a hundred or a thousand years time.  What hope of predicting conditions in a billion years time? 

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The weather forecaster told us on Thursday, that during Friday afternoon to expect sweeping and heavy rain, but that Saturday would be fine and dry. Friday was fine and dry, but on Saturday we had an afternoon of sweeping and heavy rain.

That's something else they can't seem to predict, and that's in the 'now zone'.

[cee-dee]

Our Solar System has been in existence for only a third of the time since "The Big Bang" (so we're told) but as to whether one of our probes might be captured by others depends on just when some other beings developed "out there" as to whether 1/ they're still around, 2/ whether they're less advanced than us or 3/ more advanced than us.

Some stars have planetary systems and there's so many of them that the possibility that intelligent life evolved someplace else becomes a probability but as has been pointed out by UTCYA, only a couple of hundred years difference in evolution determines whether other beings are more or less advanced than us.

Stars don't "last" forever, depending on the type of star, they only exist for between a few million and many billions of years. Our Star is about half way through its life but whether we'll survive until the end of it's "useful life" might depend on an "outside" influence like a massive collision or the shock-wave etc from a supernova.

[023mjc]

I don't think our world will last till the end of our star's useful life. We will have destroyed ourselves long before then.

My last message - Look and learn friends, look and learn.

[******lynda******]

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@cee-dee wrote:

Our Solar System has been in existence for only a third of the time since "The Big Bang" (so we're told) but as to whether one of our probes might be captured by others depends on just when some other beings developed "out there" as to whether 1/ they're still around, 2/ whether they're less advanced than us or 3/ more advanced than us.

Some stars have planetary systems and there's so many of them that the possibility that intelligent life evolved someplace else becomes a probability but as has been pointed out by UTCYA, only a couple of hundred years difference in evolution determines whether other beings are more or less advanced than us.

Stars don't "last" forever, depending on the type of star, they only exist for between a few million and many billions of years. Our Star is about half way through its life but whether we'll survive until the end of it's "useful life" might depend on an "outside" influence like a massive collision or the shock-wave etc from a supernova.

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Or some intelligent life 👽 elsewhere in the universe firing off a 🚀into space and it colliding with us 😉😀

[suzieseaside]

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@cee-dee wrote:

Some stars have planetary systems and there's so many of them that the possibility that intelligent life evolved someplace else becomes a probability but as has been pointed out by UTCYA, only a couple of hundred years difference in evolution determines whether other beings are more or less advanced than us.

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What does UTCYA stand for?    Nothing came up in google.

I'm not sure what you mean by 200 years difference in evolution?  I assume you mean 200 years difference in technological development from where we are now in parts of the developed world, rather than evolution of beings. 

200 years is nothing in the whole scheme of things to compare advancement of other beings elsewhere in space. And that assumes the same starting point, similar needs, desires, similar resources, and similar influences that drive technology.    If we had experiened no wars and had plentiful resources for example things could be quite different here.

I would be interested to read what UTCYA have to say. Can you post a link please?

[artful_dodgings]

Probably the first digit is 'Unidentified', and the latter 'America', in which case the prognostication of the acronym will mean absolutely nothing.

[cee-dee]

UTCYA = upthecreekyetagain, see #29.

[suzieseaside]

Thanks

I can’t see where he said 200 years, so I guess you said this: only a couple of hundred years difference in evolution determines whether other beings are more or less advanced than us

So can you explain what you meant? I'm not sure what you mean by 200 years difference in evolution? I assume you mean 200 years difference in technological development from where we are now in parts of the developed world, rather than evolution of beings.

200 years is nothing in the whole scheme of things to compare advancement of other beings elsewhere in space. And that assumes the same starting point, similar needs, desires, similar resources, and similar influences that drive technology.

If we had experienced no wars or threats (which stimulated a lot of technological development) and had plentiful resources for example things could be quite different here. As the saying goes - Necessity is the Mother of Invention.

I’m not understanding what point you are making about 200 years and whether such advancement would make a difference, and to what? Given that you were talking about the vast distances that would need to be travelled (which I agree with, unless there is some way that beings could travel via wormholes), do you think that some way of traversing vast distances in space could be accomplished in another 200 years?

[cee-dee]

UTCYA said that the mechanical age can be measured in hundreds of years so it's not such a big step to consider the advancement of mechanics over the last 200 years. For that, think precision clocks, watches, steam engines, trains, electricity, cars and then planes. War didn't create the necessity for those things.

Transplanting someone from 200 odd years ago to the present day would have them gasping in wonder that they were only dreaming.

So, taking that scenario out in to space, whoever saw a Voyager craft heading their way would have to be far more advanced than us. If they were only as advanced as us when Voyager was launched it'd be an absolute miracle if they saw it. If they were at the stage of development we are now, again, they'd be lucky to see it. If we only saw a half mile wide asteroid heading our way just 3 weeks ago, what chance do you give us spotting a craft only the size of Voyager? If such a craft actually came in to our atmosphere at 40,000 MPH, the first and only thing we'd see would be the fireball it created as it burned up.

As to predicting where we'd be at in 200 years time, I think I'd have as much chance of being "right" as I would of predicting the winner of next years Grand National. Wishful thinking or great vision is one thing, whether it came about is quite another.

[suzieseaside]

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cee-dee wrote:

UTCYA said that the mechanical age can be measured in hundreds of years so it's not such a big step to consider the advancement of mechanics over the last 200 years. For that, think precision clocks, watches, steam engines, trains, electricity, cars and then planes. War didn't create the necessity for those things.

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It appears that you do not think 200 years would make a difference to being able to intercept something like Voyager or even travelling the distance to do that. And I would agree with that.

War was just one example I used which has had technological spin-off; I also said need, wants and desires.

[suzieseaside]

More about what messages we would send.  I think we are mad to be advertising ourselves to other lifeforms. Some romantic and naive notion about contacting extra-terrestrials.  If they get the messages they are likely to be hugely more advanced. 

They might not be interested in us, but there is no reason to think they would be benign and might find our planet an attractive resource (if we haven't completely messed it up).  As Stephen Hawking said - human beings have a terrible history of mistreating, and even massacring, other human cultures that are less technologically advanced — why would an alien civilization be any different? 

My message would be, with apologies to the League of Gentlemen - This is a local planet for local people, there's nothing for you here.

Not that that would put them off!