Cancelling an order due to Tier 4 restrictions - and bad vibes?

[rmykelley]

Had an item sell last week (older iMac). Buyer used Buy it Now. They have paid, but have been slow to respond to messages. It was collection-only and they asked if they could collect on Monday. Since then, Tier 4 has come into effect where we both live.

Before this happened I tried to arrange a video call so they could see the computer is working ok before they collect. Today I’ve had a message along the lines of “yes send a video but we are returning it if it doesn’t work”. And they are asking questions they should have asked before committing to buy. I’ve just got a bad feeling about it. And we know eBay always sides with the buyer!

This is a 9 year old computer. It has a few minor issues that I’ve described in the listing. But it’s working fine. Nothing to hide.

Under Tier 4 restrictions I don’t think I should be meeting up with them and I definitely don’t want to deal with a return right now. It’s hardly essential business. So I have decided to cancel the order and give them a refund.

Am I likely to get a defect on my seller profile for this? Tier 4 didn’t appear in the list of reasons for cancelling (!) but interested to hear of people have ever cancelled to due to bad vibes about a sale?

[jillybaby66]

I just a Buyer and think an experienced Seller would be best placed to give you advice on defects and "bad vibes" ( though my gut is saying: cancel if you can, the buyer sounds like trouble ! )

I'm sure one of Community Members on here will advise you on that side of it

I did however study law for six years ( and volunteered for the CAB many moons ago ) so...

I can tell you that, if to fulfill a contract in UK law one would have to commit an illegal act then it is considered void and the party would not be in breech. 

"Illegal contracts are those that require either party to engage in an illegal activity to fulfill the contract. This would not be considered a legal contract by the court and could not be enforced. Thus, illegal contracts are void and neither party will be entitled to relief if the other party breaks the contract."

Under Tier Four you are only allowed to meet someone in a public place for very specific reasons and this isn't one of them ( see .gov.uk )

I know that eBay has it's own policy and rules of conduct, that give additional rights and protection for the Buyer but I can't see how they could be used to supercede Contact Law ?

I think contacting Customer Services might be the only way to be sure. It's such a new situation and may need advice on a case-by-case basis ?

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

[jillybaby66]

Found this which was the example often quoted back in the day when I studied Contract Law ( yes it mentions the Crimean War but is still considered a president and, no, I'm not QUITE that old 😂 )

D FRUSTRATION
18. Under the doctrine of frustration, a contract may be discharged if, after its
formation, an unforeseen event occurs which makes performance of the
contract impossible, illegal or essentially different from what was
contemplated. A good example is Avery v Bowden18, in which a ship was
supposed to pick up some cargo at Odessa. With the outbreak of the Crimean
War, the government made it illegal to load cargo at an enemy port, so the
ship could not perform its contract without breaking the law. The contract was
therefore frustrated. Frustration will not occur where the frustrating event
was caused by the fault of one party. Equally, frustration will not occur where
the parties made express provision for the event in their contract (such as in
a force majeure clause). The doctrine cannot be invoked lightly, and cannot
allow a party to escape from a bad bargain.

Replace Crimean War with pandemic outbreak and port in Odessa with a living room in London and it's not THAT dissimilar.

Yes, it's starting to look like a "bad bargain" ( or a bad buyer 😂 ) but it ISN'T your reason for breaking the contract. ( this would happen only if say, you got a better offer and tried abuse the law to get out of it )

Frustration just means the contract is made impossible and is void.

Yes, I delivery CAN be made in Tier 4 but only as part of a person's normal JOB ie a courier and even then, they couldn't come in nor the recipient nspect the goods then hand them back. This isn't your job and you couldn't sell non-essential items from your home or shop anyway.

So, unless eBay required you to break the law then it can't expect you to fulfill the contract ( as agreed i.e. collection not postal delivery ) nor SHOULD they punish you for it.

Practically speaking, it may not be that simple as the eBay are probably running to catch up with rapidly changing events like everyone and the system probably would be automatic and require a customer service adviser to remove any resulting defects but the law IS on your side.

Maybe the way to go is to message the Buyer and say you've been advised you would be breaking the law and as such the sale is null and void. They MAY just accept it and agree to cancel themselves ? 🤞 Which I Think would leave you in the clear defect-wise ?

Hopefully, eBay may issue a policy statement to Sellers ( they have adapted so far by extending delivery windows etc.

Other Sellers may have already made enquires, you can't be the only one in Teir 4, so hopefully may respond too 🤞

[rmykelley]

That was helpful, thanks! Brain has been in overdrive most of the weekend and this sale was keeping me up last night. I went ahead and cancelled the order because I just needed to take action on it. I might now be at a loss in terms of seller fees and reputation but
- I’m not pinning hopes on eBay to catch up and add “Tier 4” to cancellation reasons, so will accept my fate!
- I choose have some hope the buyer will be reasonable and not kick off. They haven’t responded yet. I kept the message factual, but stressed that Tier 4 was the main reasoning didn’t want to proceed, especially as they had mentioned a possible return.