Buyer inspected item in person, then made payment. Now wants to return item they have broken.

[alicelouise5678]

Hello,

We're having a real headache at the moment. We recently sold an item to a buyer who was invited to pay on collection AFTER inspecting the item and confirmung they are happy with it. They wanted to pay cash, but we insisted on Paypal for security and due to covid-19 safety.

They buyer called his wife to confirm all was good with the item after inspection and the payment was made, so we released the item.

The buyer then send us photos of a badly damaged item that they have broken whilst trying to assemble. We provided instructions as well as advice at pick up.

They are claiming that they did not receive the item as expected - even though they inspected it prior to payment. It's clear they have brutalised it whilst trying to asemble. Their incompetence is not our fault.

However, in good faith we offered a partial refund to help them move on and they rejected.

Ebay are saying we have to accept the return before we can do anything abou t it. The problem is they have taken the item across the country and it would cost us upwards of £100 to have it couriered over.

Is there any advice on what we can / should do? We're super stressed as we're in the middle of house move ourselves and have two very young kids so arranging anything is challenging, let alone a courier to pick up goods that have been damaged by the buyer.

Please help.

[*knight-rider*]

Not sure how you can mess up putting a bed together to that degree, but either way, accepting paypal on this has put you in the preverbial corner, because they now have the upper hand, so for future reference, always ask for cash on collection, though in this instance, i`m sure we all appreciate why you did this time.

My advice is that if the cheapest quote you can get to have a courier bring it back, would it be worth asking the buyer if they`d accept £100 refund to help fixing it?  i appreciate it`s not your fault they`ve done what they`ve done, but look at it like this, if it`s returned, your down £100 postage AND you end up with a pile of junk that unless you can repair, will be no good to anyone. if you refund the buyer £100, you`ll still be up £200 and won`t have to deal with fixing the thing and re-selling it, assuming you can 🙂

The above aside for a minute, i`d certainly try and fight your corner as much as possible, because it`s clear that they were happy with it on inspection and collection, so it`s obvious (or should be) that it was`nt sold that way and needs to be pointed out to Ebay or paypal. Worth a try but the above suggestion is worth a thought should you not win any dispute issue.

[alicelouise5678]

Hi - thanks for your response. We did try exactly this. We initially offered £50 in good faith, and then £100 when we found out the quote - the buyer is a horrible piece of work and is trying to deny they broke it despite message records clearly stating they had damaged it whilst trying to assemble.

I am so sure the damaged it in transit as her husband was not strapping things into his van and he told me he had to lug it upstairs when he got home. He actually said he was more worried about how he was going to get it upstairs. He's obviously done some damage that might have been made worse by a brutal assembly attempt. It's also possible that he tried to assemble it alone despite the instructions suggesting it requires two people as it stands on stilts and the weight of it can cause damage if there isn't another person to support it whilst bolts are tightened.

It's completely infuriating and I'm now looking at a civil case for damage to property as I cannot accept both the buyer and ebay's incompetence in relation to this. They buyer is rogue, for sure, but ebay are also responsible for complete lack of care to the seller in this instance and one of them, if not both need to be held accountable.

[Anonymous]

wish i had a million, then i would fund your case, the whole matter stinks and anyone with a single brain cell can see the buyer is at fault.

[Anonymous]

i wish i could advise you, however ebay are WRONG, the buyer accepted  collected and paid for the item. in my eyes thats the end it.  stand your ground and don't let ebay bully you..

[plpmr]

"however ebay are WRONG,"

Before advising please learn how eBay works T&C, buyer protection etc.

Your advice could mean the seller losing everything.

[haidabear1]

Hello, had you accepted cash on collection the buyer would not have an option as they inspected the item before they bought it however as you have insisted upon payment by paypal (which is dangerous for collections anyway) it is the buyer who is protected and its their word against yours unfortunately

[95ardenfield]

Always accept cash for collections..no issues then

[**michmich**]

Just a quick comment on returns in general- the item must be returned in the same condition as when sold

Surely your photos on the listing show it looking unbroken.

Worth a try. Try not to stress. It will be over soon

[tsmgmd]

If a buyer makes a collection only purchase from a private seller, inspects the goods, and then takes them away the sale is concluded. 

No way on this wildest earth should a buyer then be able to complain and get a refund on supposedly damaged goods. 

And what gives PayPal the legal right to do so without a proper investigation. 

PayPal are not a part of eBay. 

This highlights the draconian regulations set down by eBay that offers absolutely no protection to sellers. 

[red_magpie]

They wanted to pay cash, but we insisted on Paypal for security and due to covid-19 safety.

Then I'm afraid you've given this buyer carte blanche to find or invent any fault to claim a refund.

EBay's money back guarantee applies to items which are sold for collection if the buyer picks them up in person, AND pays by PayPal. If you had allowed them to pay by cash, as they wanted to, they would have had no claim against you.

You now have no alternative except to refund them in full. Disputing the case would be pointless. EBay's policy is to support the buyer unless they can determine that the item was as described. As eBay never sees the items involved in disputes, it's almost always a foregone conclusion that the buyer will win. If you dispute the case, you will just forfeit any return of fees and receive a defect on your account.

I think you're saying that eBay is requiring you to pay for the return postage, or provide a prepaid return label? That's interesting, and much as I would have guessed. This wasn't entirely clear when the rules changed, i.e. whether sellers would be responsible for the return of items that are collected, as they are for items that are posted. Inevitably some buyers will exploit this by inventing faults to get their items for nothing, as items sold for collection are often too heavy to be worth the cost return by courier.

This will be just one more easy way for buyers to cheat sellers on eBay. This has become an absurdly risky place to sell things.

It would be a good idea to read the full details of eBay's money back guarantee see: http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html

[alicelouise5678]

Thank you. And yes, was a huge error switching to Paypal. If it wasn't for Covid we would have not worried about the cash so much. The standard ebay polices surrounding this seem absurd and I'm surprised that anyone would risk selling anything under these circumstances.

We've had many conflicting bits of advice from ebay. Seems like every callcentre person has a different opinion about what we should do, and some are not even up to date in their understanding of the policies.

[john1297576]

Sorry but the answer saying stand your ground will not work, if you don't accept the return then buyer can escalate to ebay who will force it. You will get a defect and no refund of selling fee.

Ebay cases are automated, no human involvement so you cannot argue with a robot, or hope to prove anything.

What can be safer than Cash? Paypal for Collection items is VERY unsafe. Buyer could simply have claimed as not received and as you have no tracking then you would have to refund.

[alicelouise5678]

Thanks John. Massively regret not just accepting cash.

We have been in touch with ebay over the phone who have advised we accept the return and then report the buyer, and to issue a partial refund based on the damage to item. Any experience with this? We are cooperating as we don't want to risk the automated process, but it still feels so wrong that we're having to pay £100+ for a courier.

[plpmr]

your mistake was to refuse cash and insist on PayPal.

If the buyer has opened a case and you don't accept the return eBay will force you to refund.

If you had taken cash you could have refused the return.

[tsmgmd]

I have just looked at the PayPal website, specifically the user agreement and buyer protection. 

Line 15 has this statement. 

purchases of items which you collect in person, or arrange to be collected.

This appears under the heading items not covered by PayPal buyer protection. 

[geosacha007]

Oh dear.  Paypal gives the buyer security not the seller.