could the new HMRC rules SEE A MASS EXODUS FROM E BAY

[reasonable-robert]

hi ...(quote)

From 1 January 2024, new UK digital sales reporting legislation requires eBay, and other UK digital marketplaces, to report a user’s sales over clearly defined thresholds to HMRC. 

For more information about UK digital sales reporting and what information will be shared with HMRC, visit our Help page.

Please also see guidance from HMRC for more information on when you may or may not need to pay tax for selling goods online.

It is important to be aware that this is not a new tax or a change to existing tax rules for people who use online marketplaces. 

Required UK digital sales reporting should only affect newly registered accounts in 2024 and all accounts in 2025 who pass either of the below calendar year sales thresholds on eBay: 

• Total sales on eBay is equal to or more than €2,000 (approximately £1,740) after deducting fees and commissions or taxes
• 30 or more sales transactions are completed on eBay (cancelled transactions are not included in the calculation)
• Starting from January 2025, the prior calendar year's information will be reported to HMRC each January and a copy of the reported data will be provided to sellers. We recommend that you consult HMRC or a tax advisor if you have any questions about your tax obligations. 

In order to pay tax on the goods or services you sell online, you either have to be trading or making a capital gain.

If you are just selling some unwanted possessions that have been lying around your home, such as the contents of a loft or garage, it is unlikely that you will have to pay income tax. If you sell possessions for more than you paid for them you may have to pay capital gains tax, but only if you exceed your annual allowance for such gains (currently £6,000). For more information on capital gains tax on personal possessions, see guidance from HMRC.

If you buy goods for resale, or make goods with the intention of selling them for a profit, then you are likely to be trading and will have to pay tax on your profits.

However, if your total income from trading or providing services online was less than £1,000 (before deducting expenses) in any tax year, you would not be required to inform HMRC nor pay any tax on the profits (this is due to the Trading and Miscellaneous Income Allowance). .......(unquote)

so unless you,re a freind of the tories, non dom, a member of the royal family or own a big business then the tax man will be after you.

the fall out as many people have said will be sellers looking elsewhere to sell.

facebook could only comply if you sell on the marketplace as the local sites are independantly run by individuals acting as admins so they would have to get every site to report sellers over a certain threshold which couldnt realisticly be done.

meanwhile back at e bay could this see a mass drop in members, sales and sellers both business and private walking away from e bay as 30 transactions in a year is easily achieveable in just one month.

it looks as if e bay could finally morph into the rival shopping destination to amazon its desperate to become and before the B.S clap their hands and cheer remember that when people walk away theres only those who are looking for certain items that you may sell left.

lots of competetitors selling the same thing not just here but on amazon and other sites and the chinese sellers....call it reality.

now lets have a sensible discussion without silly comments please.     

[dch2112011]

Today Govt announce changes to reporting from £1000 to £3000 and online portal for paying tax -  this is to eliminate more side hustle online taxpayers from having to fill in self assesment forms.

Sketchy details so not sure they are talking about the trading allowance but wil be confirmed on the 20th - ebay should react along with the other platforms 

[vintique*violet]

Yes,  you are correct  @sml192 - my apologies...slip of the fingers...thank you for highlighting 😉 

The personal tax allowance is  £12570 @tammysweet74  sorry, the digits 5 & 7 are the wrong way so NOT  £12750 it is £12570 

[sdjwales]

Yes it looks like the trading allowance will triple to £3000.

IMHO the threshold for automatic sending of data to HMRC should be increased to reflect this.

It makes little sense to proceed with the 1700 limit.

They should amend the 30 transaction limit, too.

[vintique*violet]

Yes, saw this earlier supposedly coming into effect in 2029 but really not  enough "clarified" information as yet...

[sml192]

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@sdjwales wrote:

Yes it looks like the trading allowance will triple to £3000.

IMHO the threshold for automatic sending of data to HMRC should be increased to reflect this.

It makes little sense to proceed with the 1700 limit.

They should amend the 30 transaction limit, too.

---

Unfortunately, the digital reporting thresholds are set by the OECD, not the UK government, and are the same for all the countries that have signed up to it. 

[sdjwales]

I read it would be 2027-28 tax year.

The reasoning for the delay seems silly, though.

"As HMRC has to develop an alternative online service to report and pay any unpaid tax"

I really don't see how raising the trading allowance/reporting threshold in itself should be inherently dependent on any other specific action taking place...but there we go!

[vintique*violet]

My opinion --  Maybe HMRC have realised it is a bigger task? Perhaps A.I. isn't as "intelligent" as they thought?  🤣

Is it to " capture" all personal data from everyone, everything  seems  to be " encouraged" and/or  " moving" online? Are we going to be " serviced" by bots?

 Just feels very uncomfortable. 

[theelench]

Another portal , another account to sign up to, re-verify data, hand over a bit more for 'security' reasons.  We've seen it all before.  I just wonder who is the big fat spider at the center of the World Wide Web.  

[vintique*violet]

Yes - often wonder the same things too. 

[parsley2003]

That's 4 years away but it's something i suppose

[the_book_seekers]

Yes it looks like the trading allowance will triple to £3000.
IMHO the threshold for automatic sending of data to HMRC should be increased to reflect this.
It makes little sense to proceed with the 1700 limit.
They should amend the 30 transaction limit, too.

HMRC will probably continue with the 30 sales/£1700 limit to catch sellers who have small

multiple accounts and there are quite a few. Having National Insurance numbers will show these sellers up. 

[dch2112011]

Being a bit cynical, could it be that HMRC have realised quite how overwhelming the sheer volume of the task really is now reports are flowing in and they have asked the govt to cough up more billions to enforce the 'side hustle' tax - 

By reducing the number that need to be scrutinised by increasing thresholds  and spinning it as encouraging the British entrepreneurial  spirit - puts the govt in a good light and saves the embarassment of having to find more money  to fund it which would reduce the net gain and throw the govt's financial policies into more doubt ?

[dch2112011]

Good point, ebay is only one source of information being gathered, HMRC will aggregate info from online selling, bank interest, pensions, benefits, multiple bank accounts, shares, mortgages the list goes on.

The information harvesting is already being acted upon and tax bills being sent 

[sml192]

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@the_book_seekers wrote:

Yes it looks like the trading allowance will triple to £3000.
IMHO the threshold for automatic sending of data to HMRC should be increased to reflect this.
It makes little sense to proceed with the 1700 limit.
They should amend the 30 transaction limit, too.

HMRC will probably continue with the 30 sales/£1700 limit to catch sellers who have small

multiple accounts and there are quite a few. Having National Insurance numbers will show these sellers up. 

---

HMRC have no choice.  The digital reporting thresholds are set by the OECD and are the same for every country that has signed up. 

[papso22]

I suppose HMRC will have set internal limits below which they will ignore the data they have to receive.

[the_book_seekers]

If the trading allowance does go up to £3000 it won’t change obligations under consumer legislation. Sellers will still need business accounts. It will just mean not having to submit self assessments.

[theelench]

But presumably, just to be on the safe side, they should still do all the book-keeping to prove to HMRC that they are under the new threshold, if asked?

As an ex-self employed tax payer, I didn't find the tax return difficult to complete.  What I found more onerous was keeping meticulous books of all income and expenditure.  My business was 'a service' without any stock.  No buying-in or selling-on and keeping track of margins etc., so pretty easy.  Even so, after 30 years I was glad to be done with it all.

As a private seller I can do without having to start record keeping again just to prove that I'm not breaching the thresholds and if I'm lucky enough to ever do so, that after deducting fees, postage and 'a reasonable second-hand value' for the items sold, that I have very little 'profit' to tax.

[carbtec]

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@dch2112011 wrote:

Being a bit cynical, could it be that HMRC have realised quite how overwhelming the sheer volume of the task really is now reports are flowing in and they have asked the govt to cough up more billions to enforce the 'side hustle' tax - 

By reducing the number that need to be scrutinised by increasing thresholds  and spinning it as encouraging the British entrepreneurial  spirit - puts the govt in a good light and saves the embarassment of having to find more money  to fund it which would reduce the net gain and throw the govt's financial policies into more doubt ?

---

One of the best 'tricks' in business is to let the other guy "think" you are doing something. HMRC are gathering all this info (which I feel they cannot possibly process) & making it known there will be more likelihood of consequences for tax evasion at ever decreasing levels. Personally, I don't think there is much 'meat' behind these changes, I think it is still the same old same old HMRC. I know a few senior business consultants who help major companies with business proceedures involving tax avoidance & word is that HMRC is hopelessly run & anyone within it trying to 'improve' the way it works & make it more efficient is basically herding cats while pushing water uphill.

[crg_music]

On a positive carboots should be good this year.

But seriously unless you really are trading illegally or turning over huge amounts on qty/money people shouldn't worry about it. They are really not going to be going after everyone, they cant even keep up with what they have already. Despite the fear factor hmrc are really not that scary and you wont go to prison in 2025 unless you've done something massive. 

I already talked 1 mate out of giving up by promising to do his tax return if it came to it. No harm in keeping track of expenses just incase but just imagine how many people went over that threshold, will be millions in the same boat and an online tax return takes minutes to do, you dont need an accountant and I'd bet if all of a sudden a few million people have to do one that Martin Lewis or similar will have a step by step guide out in hours.

[eastern-lights]

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@crg_music wrote:

On a positive carboots should be good this year.

But seriously unless you really are trading illegally or turning over huge amounts on qty/money people shouldn't worry about it. They are really not going to be going after everyone, they cant even keep up with what they have already. Despite the fear factor hmrc are really not that scary and you wont go to prison in 2025 unless you've done something massive. 

I already talked 1 mate out of giving up by promising to do his tax return if it came to it. No harm in keeping track of expenses just incase but just imagine how many people went over that threshold, will be millions in the same boat and an online tax return takes minutes to do, you dont need an accountant and I'd bet if all of a sudden a few million people have to do one that Martin Lewis or similar will have a step by step guide out in hours.

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Agreed.

In practise, the online tax form isn't that bad. Most boxes have something to click which pops up more information about what you put in that box. And do not worry about leaving boxes empty, I reckon I leave 90% of them empty. You can do it in small bits, complete a bit of the form, save it, come back tomorrow or next week. The only strong advice I'd give is don't leave it until the deadline. Start it early. Months early.