The Death of Auctions?

[ett1954]

Has anyone seen this gem to come soon in the summer update to affect auctions (my bold italics):

Reducing unpaid items

Placing a bid

Additionally, buyers on select auctions will be required to set up a preferred payment method and postal address before they can place a bid. After winning an auction, they’ll have one hour to adjust their order or payment details, otherwise we’ll automatically process their order using their preferred payment method. No action is required from the seller.

These changes will help to improve the auction process on eBay by providing buyers with the ability to decide how they want to pay, whilst also ensuring that sellers receive payment for their sales. The goal is to foster a more efficient and dependable experience for the entire eBay community.

From FAQs:

No changes are needed with how you set up your listings. You should expect to see fewer unpaid items on items sold through auctions as we test and launch changes.

You can still combine multiple purchases from the same buyer in a single shipment, but please be aware that a buyer may be automatically charged for postage costs for each individual item when payments are processed.

As a buyer, you may be prompted to provide a payment method and select a postal address prior to placing a bid on an auction. You'll have the ability to edit these details before the auction ends. If you win the auction, you'll be given a one hour period to make any changes. If no changes are made, we’ll automatically charge your default payment method. 

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There is no opt out mentioned for this 'feature'; without one it will be the end of auctions on eBay for me.  A few things immediately spring to mind.  I don't have problems with non-payers but I do have regular, long-standing buyers of 8 years or more who bid on items spanning across 10 days or even longer.  Combining multiple wins into one order is a necessity; especially with lower value items.

Many of my buyers are international and on a completely different time zone - what they win can determine how and where they want it sent (forwarding agents, etc.)  How do they respond in an hour if an auction is finishing at 3 am for them, or if they are at work, travelling, etc.

I had thought eBay had learnt their lesson from the debacle of immediate payments on Buy it Now listings.  My acceptance level from offers sent is now virtually nil.  What I do foresee is an increase in 'remorse' returns for business sellers running auctions in some sectors.  Sure we will see a lot less non-payers ..... this will be in conjunction with a lot less sales.

One final question for eBay - where is this supposed feedback you received stating sellers want this ........ nobody has asked me.  Has anyone on these boards been asked?  Please publish this data along with the agency you commissioned to carry out the research.

[a45heaven]

Im very sorry, i thought when they had the MAJOR HACK it was in San Diego, Maybe im wrong about the town , but im sure about the HACK.

[tommystrezures]

Which reminds me of a song!  (thank you Dionne Warwick!) 

Does ebay know the way to San Jose?
They've been away for so long
They seem to keep getting it  wrong and lose their way
Does Ebay know the way to San Jose?
I'm going back to speak my mind in San Jose

 

Ebay is a great big freeway
Pre authorisation of auctions was a step to far
In a hour or, maybe two, they'll make pay, whilst your sat in the bar
Minutes turns in to hours, how quick they pass
And all the items that never were
Annoyed buyers wanting just that hourglass.

🙂

[*help_no_brakes*]

Fantastic singer.

[theelench]

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to talk about Mentors, for the same reasons as discussing Moderators is barred??

But I'll give it a try.

There was once a member who for years answered innumerable questions from sellers with problems.  She signed-up to become a Mentor, which comes with conditions attached.  One of them, so I was told, is along the lines of "Advocating for ebay", which I take to mean not being overtly critical.  On some issue she was deemed to have not advocated effectively enough and was barred from the boards for life.

Perhaps the Mentors have said so little because they can't think of anything much to say that's positive?

[6783davidb]

Only when they make an offer or they bid. They will then be asked to provide a payment method.

[theelench]

I don't know at what point this happens on auctions but I fell foul of it on an auction with Make an Offer when this was wheeled out for making offers.

I found a vase I've been looking for with less than 24 hours to go and no bids on an auction at a 'good' , but not a bargain price.  Not wanting to loose it in the last seconds I tried to offer a price considerably more than the start price.

Put the offer in the box, clicked send (or perhaps review offer?) and was taken to the Payment Method page instead.  Without completing that page there was no way to continue.

I messaged the seller, we both didn't understand why this had happened (so she had been auto-enrolled and didn't know it).

Neither of us were very tech-savvy, so didn't know what to do.  So I abandoned the offer and just bid.  I won the vase for more than the opening bid, but not as much as I would have offered the seller if I'd been allowed to.

[ett1954]

"..... actually Marco didnt seem very clued up either from his comment last week."

To be fair to Marco he is just the messenger - so don't shoot the messenger.

He will be given scripted material with which he has to respond to issues.  The fault lies much higher up the chain of command.

The way this has been implemented smacks of people in that higher position not understanding the options and decision making process a buyer has to make when purchasing (click and collect, payment method, can I combine to meet my budget, etc., etc.).  Nor do they understand the implications this has to the seller, especially on international sales, (postage method required, completion of customs documentation, is a combined invoice even possible, etc., etc.).

In typical eBay fashion they have tried to implement a one-size-fits-all procedure.  The issue, eBay say, is non-payment; therefore the problem is a small minority of buyers (probably less than 0.01%) who habitually don't pay.  Every buyer is now treated as potentially a non-payer by this feature and, as can be seen from the more recent responses to this thread, this is inhibiting buyers from making purchases or placing bids therefore driving buyers away from the platform.  Surely it would have been in everyone's interest for eBay to address non-payers directly with a sanction (such as this new procedure); after all eBay make no money from non-payers, so what would be the problem in targeting them directly?

I wonder what the CEO's response to investors will be when quarter 3 results are announced in October when yet another decline in active buyers is reported.

[a45heaven]

I wasn't especially having a pop at Marco - although he does work for and get paid by ebay, where as the Mentors do not. It has been pointed out that Mentors were not privy to information either.

When Marco made his reply on this thread, maybe he had not been briefed on the fiasco , but that was last week, would your customers expect some more information in the expanding time frame , if it was a question they had asked you?

[dch2112011]

I am sure Marco was just passing on the information availble to him, ebay always work on a need to know basis  - with members being the bottom of the food chain.  

Customer services are only briefed just before launch and are given the options on how to respond to members tightly governed by the official ebay secrecy act.

What may have happened is that the clever among you who dug out what was happening in the USA found that initially there was no opt out then there was then it was removed then it was reinstated so little old UK probably had the info that there was no opt out then by magic it appeared when launched.

The back room staff obviously knew about it but I doubt many more did until it was launched.

In the past I have been lucky enough to talk to some of the back room teams and it is a real eye opener as to what the system is designed to do and why it works the way it does -  it did leave a lasting impression so much more positive than how it is not explained when introduced but brief encounters by circumstance only give you a snapshot in time. 

The backroom experts talked so much sense and did not hide anything but then back in the ebay front yard you spend half your time trying to piece together what has changed, why and how it works - still keeps this forum scratching it's head.

[ett1954]

I am familiar with how large corporations deal with such communications, which is why I was defending Marco.

"The backroom experts talked so much sense and did not hide anything"  -  I don't doubt your comments for one minute, although I have never been privy to such a conversation.

Perhaps one of these 'backroom experts' can come to the boards to explain the process of how a seller can easily combine an international package comprised of individual payments, where taxes and fees are taken from each sale individually and a discount has then been given by the seller (as suggested as a solution by eBay), and be reconciled with the customs data required.  I ask because Royal Mail seem to be unable to merge such sales into one order and provide the customs data to be compliant with what is required.

[dch2112011]

I wish they  would, normally you hit a brick wall lined with machine guns before you can get to talk to them and I doubt I ever will again.

As for the current problem -  it will all depend on priorities -  that's how ebay work - it would not surprise me if the problem of non payers came to the top of the pile  a while ago so they implemented the change but in between designing it and implementing it other more urgent  matters got implemented  that impacted on it - so they had to implement it and change it as it went live - nothing new there then !

[a45heaven]

The 1 hour on auctions and the instant pay on Set Sale, point to ebay being desperate for funds.

Combining Postage is vital on lower priced items, either Set Sale Or Indeed Auction -

The Unreliable/ Corrupt Check Out That We Have Had Developed Upon Us, Together With The Eronius New Refund Process Leans To Sellers Not Being Able To Make Refunds.

Who Will The Buyers Blame I Wonder?

ebay Will Get Their Funds, So What Interest Have They In Solving Their Own Created Problems.

Ive Taken The Option Of Reducing Items For Sale So I Can More Actively Monitor Items As They Sell.

When Any Issue ebay Create Takes Longer To Process, ( AI Listings Is The Latest), Simply Spend The Same Amount Of Time To Fulfill The Operation, Albeit Posting Less Items. 

[6783davidb]

 

 If anyone has time, please go to the "Tell us what you think" link and give eBay absolute hell about this utter stupidity.

Scroll down to the bottom of the buyer management page and you will find it in very small text. (I wonder why the text is so much smaller than that of all the other links? Hmm).

Tell your friends.

[a45heaven]

I used to respond to these surveys, but i really doubt ebay would listen to any negatives ( its hard to imagine anyone not employed by nor obliged to ebay praising the item being surveyed), maybe they are more of a case of showing to an official body that they ask the questions, what happens to the answers is unknown - all down to your faith in ebay.

[a45heaven]

Any more updates on this catastrophic scheme yet?

Its been a couple of weeks since it became apparent as to what ebay planned for us.

[tommystrezures]

No there isn't, its here to annoy us! 

my only useful advice is to opt out of it, if you wish, and have nothing to do with it which is what we have done and we carry on as normal. We have had four or five auctions since this ill conceived idea came in to fruition, and we have not noticed any downturns etc (yet!). 

On the otherside of the coin, it would be interesting to hear if people have decided to opt in, what affect its had on their auctions and the extra work they have had to do.

In your buyers requirements under buyer rules untick the boxes. if you want out (so to speak!!)

[theelench]

I opted out having seen first hand how it affected an auction with MAO (as related above).  The seller ended-up with less than they would have, had I been able to offer them my max. bid as an Offer.

I can only see this making auctions even less popular because without any clarity from ebay about which sellers are 'in' and which are 'out' buyers can find their bids disallowed.  How many times will they try to bid, not knowing if their bid will be accepted or not?

How many sellers will continue to auction items when this requirement is clearly going to reduce the number of possible bidders, especially when so many auctions end with only 1 bid already.

I think this will also have a knock-on effect on private buyers and sellers if they still use paypal, as I do.  I still pay for ebay purchases using PP, which has a DD on my linked bank account for use if PP balance is running low.  Am I wrong in thinking that if I give my card details to ebay, that will become my default payment method for all future purchases, by-passing PP??

Ebay has my bank details for sales payments and refunds, if required.  I see PP as another layer of security when buying, as I don't use my card on-line, I use PP instead.  

[a45heaven]

We have had four or five auctions since this ill conceived idea came in to fruition, and we have not noticed any downturns etc (yet!). 

Does that mean its in action already?

How do we know who has been 'Goose Stepped' into the trial?

I have unticked the boxes, but you can never trust ebay not to auto opt in, from experience here.

Maybe its better to cease all auctions until something firm is established -

My Set Sales went to other more reliable, cheaper platforms (50% less) with favourable results many years back.

[tommystrezures]

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@theelench wrote:

I can only see this making auctions even less popular because without any clarity from ebay about which sellers are 'in' and which are 'out' buyers can find their bids disallowed.  How many times will they try to bid, not knowing if their bid will be accepted or not?

My understanding is if you read the ebay blurb that a buyer has to provide the method of payment and address before they can actually place a bid. To that end buyers will know that if they are not asked for these details then they will know a seller has opted out. Admittedly communication from ebay has in my view been very poor, and they do really need to make this clear to buyers not just as a bulletin within the community here, but on a wider scale. I am also not sure if its just a UK & USA thing or a worldwide approach either. Some one may clarify that.

How many sellers will continue to auction items when this requirement is clearly going to reduce the number of possible bidders, especially when so many auctions end with only 1 bid already. As I have mentioned we have not noticed any changes (yet) opting out with our bidders. I would say though some are leaving their bid slightly earlier than the usual last 20 seconds.

I think this will also have a knock-on effect on private buyers and sellers if they still use paypal, as I do.  I still pay for ebay purchases using PP, which has a DD on my linked bank account for use if PP balance is running low.  Am I wrong in thinking that if I give my card details to ebay, that will become my default payment method for all future purchases, by-passing PP?? I would have thought (not tried this yet) that you should be able to set Paypal as your preferred payment method before submitting a bid.

Ebay has my bank details for sales payments and refunds, if required.  I see PP as another layer of security when buying, as I don't use my card on-line, I use PP instead.  Yes I do the same as well.

EDIT: Put my italics into bold so it may be easier to read my responses!!

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[a45heaven]

My buyer account has not had any notification of this scheme. I have not seen any of my wins in the past couple of days become inflicted with the one hour payment.

On PP for sure, once you cancel your DD for ebay, then i believe ebays back door route to our funds ends (this was the case when they effectively ended Offers being entered into from my side).

I find ebay is only passable for auctions, they killed off set sale for collectible items years back. 

Is there a way to communicate to SELLERS in one hit from my buying account to explain the effects of this and explain why i shall have to cease bidding?

Combined sales are impossible with the one hour scheme, unless a seller has all their items ending at the same time - which obviously results in less bidding and probably lower sale prices.