The Death of Auctions?

[ett1954]

Has anyone seen this gem to come soon in the summer update to affect auctions (my bold italics):

Reducing unpaid items

Placing a bid

Additionally, buyers on select auctions will be required to set up a preferred payment method and postal address before they can place a bid. After winning an auction, they’ll have one hour to adjust their order or payment details, otherwise we’ll automatically process their order using their preferred payment method. No action is required from the seller.

These changes will help to improve the auction process on eBay by providing buyers with the ability to decide how they want to pay, whilst also ensuring that sellers receive payment for their sales. The goal is to foster a more efficient and dependable experience for the entire eBay community.

From FAQs:

No changes are needed with how you set up your listings. You should expect to see fewer unpaid items on items sold through auctions as we test and launch changes.

You can still combine multiple purchases from the same buyer in a single shipment, but please be aware that a buyer may be automatically charged for postage costs for each individual item when payments are processed.

As a buyer, you may be prompted to provide a payment method and select a postal address prior to placing a bid on an auction. You'll have the ability to edit these details before the auction ends. If you win the auction, you'll be given a one hour period to make any changes. If no changes are made, we’ll automatically charge your default payment method. 

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There is no opt out mentioned for this 'feature'; without one it will be the end of auctions on eBay for me.  A few things immediately spring to mind.  I don't have problems with non-payers but I do have regular, long-standing buyers of 8 years or more who bid on items spanning across 10 days or even longer.  Combining multiple wins into one order is a necessity; especially with lower value items.

Many of my buyers are international and on a completely different time zone - what they win can determine how and where they want it sent (forwarding agents, etc.)  How do they respond in an hour if an auction is finishing at 3 am for them, or if they are at work, travelling, etc.

I had thought eBay had learnt their lesson from the debacle of immediate payments on Buy it Now listings.  My acceptance level from offers sent is now virtually nil.  What I do foresee is an increase in 'remorse' returns for business sellers running auctions in some sectors.  Sure we will see a lot less non-payers ..... this will be in conjunction with a lot less sales.

One final question for eBay - where is this supposed feedback you received stating sellers want this ........ nobody has asked me.  Has anyone on these boards been asked?  Please publish this data along with the agency you commissioned to carry out the research.

[vinylscot]

@ett1954  I see it now, thank you. For such a major change, they have rather buried it, the equivalent of Douglas Adams' "on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying "beware of the Leopard""

I can only hope that the reaction will be so negative, either now, or when a more prominent announcement is made, that it will be quietly dropped, or at the very least that an opt-out will be introduced.

[a45heaven]

Sack of ..........

Post the ebay message on social media sites to inform buyers who has thought this debacle up.

So this is the end of combined orders now?

The end of selling marginal items, where the benefit of combined postage is the only way to make an item viable.

ebay are directly contributing to environmental issues - increased packaging , additional delivery operations for each item.

Oh but ebay get rewards for the fees they charge on postage. That appears to be their motive.

Didnt ebay like the thought of vetting new members who join ebay, instead leaving it down to sellers to work through the process, and become the devils.

Thank goodness alternative sites have been expanded over the years to produce an improved selling location.

[ett1954]

It appears that all eBay operational changes are being made by accountants that have no understanding at all of how the business operates at ground level....... or maybe it is just the senior management that have no understanding of how the business operates outside of their offices.

kate@ebay  Any chance that you could release the data from the agency eBay commisioned which eBay have stated this is what sellers want?  It is not unusual for businesses to do so when justifying the decisions they make in an effort to keep their stakeholders onside.  Failing that could you please confirm that their will be at least an opt-out for sellers running auctions.

[ett1954]

Regarding this being in operation in the United States; as i understand it was quietly dropped some months ago after kickback from both sellers and buyers.  Maybe it has been re-introduced in their summer update - I'll check.

UPDATE:  I was correct, this was dropped earlier this year in the US after several problems were identified causing poor experiences for both buyers and sellers in the US.  However this has now been re-introduced in their Summer Update announced yesterday which contains the same message on auto-pay coming for auctions with the one hour option to change.  That should be interesting in a country that spans 10 time zones if you include Guam, and still six zones without Guam.

[dch2112011]

What changes have ebay made to allow the reintroduction - maybe they ironed out the problems ?

[a45heaven]

maybe they ironed out the problems ?

LOL Bless your faith -

maybe they just dont care what the users think and plough on regardless.

[moldosgifts]

As a buyer, what is changing when I bid on Auctions?

As a buyer, you may be prompted to provide a payment method and select a postal address prior to placing a bid on an auction. You'll have the ability to edit these details before the auction ends. If you win the auction, you'll be given a one hour period to make any changes. If no changes are made, we’ll automatically charge your default payment method. 

So it's not every buyer and an hour after auction ends and if they have default payment that will be charged .

So you can have buyers with no payment method registered maybe expired card. And is this not just a drive away from use of paypal?

[hettsville]

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@ett1954 wrote

kate@ebay  Any chance that you could release the data from the agency eBay commisioned which eBay have stated this is what sellers want?  It is not unusual for businesses to do so when justifying the decisions they make in an effort to keep their stakeholders onside.  Failing that could you please confirm that their will be at least an opt-out for sellers running auctions.

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It's no good asking Katie she left in March.

Try marco@ebay , anita@ebay  or dave@ebay  they seem to work here on a rota system.

[dch2112011]

On the basis they removed the changes in the USA because of the problems to buyers and sellers and are now reinstating the changes you would think they would overcome the reasons for removing it in the first place - otherwise why remove it  ?

If the info posted is correct I have faith that ebay would make changes to eliminate the problems that caused such a dramatic u turn - 

This type of thread  appears everytime changes are made -  managed payments - simple delivery, feedback reviews  to name a few

What I find odd is the number of members complaining about non payers at auctions then when ebay try to support the complaints by changing the system - the members complain about the changes !

This thread is all what if and maybe !

[ett1954]

I remember at the time one of the issues being with one of their 'pet' categories, Trading Cards.  Buyers winning auctions were not able to have their cards sent directly to eBay's 'vault'.  I believe there were also problems with offers being made and accepted on auctions where when the offer was accepted but the buyer was presented with a counter offer for same amount which created a bit of confusion.

Without any specifics on the update it is impossible to know what is coming.  My best hope is that these measures will only apply to buyers with 'x' amount of non-payment strikes; after all eBay claim it is to stop non-payers.  It would make sense to apply these restrictions to those with a track record of not paying rather than tarring everyone with the same brush.

[ett1954]

@hettsville   Thanks for tagging them.  I can't keep track of who is and isn't around anymore as I seldom ever get a response.  Let's see.

[ett1954]

"What I find odd is the number of members complaining about non payers at auctions then when ebay try to support the complaints by changing the system - the members complain about the changes !"

I agree to a point, however I have never complained about non-payers and I rarely get them, but as a business seller I would rather have a non-payer than a remorse return.  It is easier, and cheaper, to block them and move on.

I have no problem with eBay targeting non-payers but why treat every buyer as a potential non-payer.  After all they know who the non-payers are; hence my earlier comment.

[dch2112011]

Your earlier comment regarding non payers was relevant and sensible and ebay should look at it (if they haven't already) - it should act as a deterrent as well as a solution - whether that suggestion becomes reality or it is a one glove fits all solution remains to be seen, the devil is in the detail - but without detail it is near impossible to second guess how it will work or not as the case maybe.

I know that pay immediately with BIN listings is a godsend for us - zero non payers, no drop in orders  and makes shipping very easy and everyone is used to paying when they purchase, it is never questioned by buyers- would buyers not accept they have to pay within an hour of the hammer going down ? Would it be seller optional ?  

If this is anything like managed payments it will rumble on until introduced and then after a few tweaks, silence ! 

[vinylscot]

I think the "avoiding non-payers" reason is really a bit of a red herring. It's all about collecting payments quicker.

From @dch2112011 's post above, and from my own experience, NPBs overall are a minor inconvenience, and not a major problem. You can, if you wish, enforce immediate payment on your BIN's.

Personally, I'd rather have the minor inconvenience of a NPB every now and again, if I am getting sales. To me, it's an accepted risk, and one I'm happy to take. NPBs certainly account for much less than 1% of my sales.

Often, when someone posts on here about an NPB, the advice given is just to deal with it as an NPB (and let's be honest; given how many members eBay has, it's not really that common a problem). Forcing an unwilling buyer into paying is seen to be counter-productive, simply storing up problems for later, particularly SNAD claims.

Now that option will disappear, so those who suffered from NPBs will suffer from SNAD claims instead. There is already a perfectly good procedure in place for dealing woith NPBs, and there really is no need to tinker with it.

[a45heaven]

I know that pay immediately with BIN listings is a godsend for us - zero non payers, no drop in orders  and makes shipping very easy and everyone is used to paying when they purchase, it is never questioned by buyers- 

I feel you are overstating the acceptance of the process - combined shipping ended, the shortfalls of the check outs became more obvious. Then to cap it off ebay held payment details and had access to your payment source - that privilege should only be reserved for trusted , secure entities - does that cap fit ebay??

Alternative platforms have benefited from ebays actions, there is a shortage of auction sites, but heigh ho something will crop up.

would buyers not accept they have to pay within an hour of the hammer going down ? Would it be seller optional ?  

please explain  how combined shipping will work ?

Does that mean that bidding on International sites would be impractical due to time differences (and please dont say ebay have covered it by auto taking funds).

If this is anything like managed payments it will rumble on until introduced and then after a few tweaks, silence ! 

MP has never been forgotten and the lies which coerced sellers to comply are long lasting . 

[plpmr]

"would buyers not accept they have to pay within an hour of the hammer going down" 

not a problem to do with payment, the hour is given in order for a buyer to make changes, as eBay are worldwide 24 hours that could mean getting up at [say] 5am.

[ett1954]

"would buyers not accept they have to pay within an hour of the hammer going down ? Would it be seller optional ?"

I accept that many buyers may well accept it, however a significant proportion of my customers, many international, are looking for specific items and wish to combine orders, whether it be Buy it Now or auctions.  As I have auctions running continuously this may spread over a 2-3 weeks time-frame in some instances.

BINs are manageable as I have auto-pay switched off allowing customers to request an invoice or preferably notify me of their request so I can create a bespoke Buy it Now listing.  In the last week I have had a customer order 12 items from China and another 9 from Australia this way.  Fixed price listings can be managed with a seller opt out however auctions cannot be managed without this opt out; the buyer doesn't know whether he can achieve the purchase until the end of the auction.  As for refunding excess postage and tax afterwards this creates unnecessary work and potential confusion and suspicion with the buyer, and of course requires trust from the buyer.  This is also if the buyer even bids knowing he may well have a large sum of money tied up for a period of time (the Australian buyer would have paid nine times the individual postage cost and the subsequent unnecessary tax when the invoiced postage for the order was only double that of the single item postage cost).

I understand this is eBay's platform and their rules however sellers running auctions should be afforded precise and clear clarification on what is coming.  I am currently preparing new material for listing in the coming months - no opt out then I will finish my auctions prior this coming into effect and move the material to one of my other selling areas (not all online).  The decision to do that needs to be made in a timely manner.  I do not want to wake up morning and read on these boards that this has now been implemented with no forewarning as I  did when the decision to auto-enroll everyone with BINs into auto-payment was made.

[a45heaven]

as eBay are worldwide 24 hours that could mean getting up at [say] 5am.

And what if the buyer was buying more than a single item from a site at 5.00am local time , then some items several hours later, the some more a few hours after that? Are you advocating being on ebay 24 hours a day in order to bid on something? 

Two options spring to mind - ebay cease this nonsense or stop buying and selling on ebay, either seems attractive at this moment in time compared to this change.

As a none paid Experienced Mentor, were you consulted as a body about this new process? Ive stopped expecting ebay caring anything what mere mortals think many moons ago.

[dch2112011]

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@a45heaven wrote:

I know that pay immediately with BIN listings is a godsend for us - zero non payers, no drop in orders  and makes shipping very easy and everyone is used to paying when they purchase, it is never questioned by buyers- 

I feel you are overstating the acceptance of the process - combined shipping ended, the shortfalls of the check outs became more obvious. Then to cap it off ebay held payment details and had access to your payment source - that privilege should only be reserved for trusted , secure entities - does that cap fit ebay??

All of our listings are free shipping so no issue with combined shipping whatsoever !

Most account holding sites hold payment details - Why do you think ebay should be different they probably have more robust security than most but hey you can delete your payment methods - holding them is designed to speed up the process and it does.

Alternative platforms have benefited from ebays actions, there is a shortage of auction sites, but heigh ho something will crop up. 

So you think this change will spur another to open up an auction site and take all of ebay's customers - hmmmm maybe or maybe not !

would buyers not accept they have to pay within an hour of the hammer going down ? Would it be seller optional ?  

please explain  how combined shipping will work ?

Easy a partial refund agreed with the buyer or offer free shipping even easier !

Does that mean that bidding on International sites would be impractical due to time differences (and please dont say ebay have covered it by auto taking funds).

Buyer's choice and yes auto bidding and payment means the buyer can snooze away until the morning

If this is anything like managed payments it will rumble on until introduced and then after a few tweaks, silence ! 

MP has never been forgotten and the lies which coerced sellers to comply are long lasting . 

Well that's the first negative comment I've read about managed payments for a long while   - so what was it that you think you were coerced into and lied to about that is long lasting in your mind and why are you using it  ?

If you believe  you were coerced and lied to surely you would have fled for the hills - or was that  just a common theme which sounded like a good idea at the time ?

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[a45heaven]

firstly what ranking is a Conversationalist ? i see you have multiple accounts as you show no listings on this one, and speak of Free postage. And am trying to judge your standpoint.

All my BIN items are away from ebay now, if there was an auction site of note that would be coming more attractive now.

MP lies

Lied to that all sellers on the US site was already operating it - false

when it took days for monies to be transferred to sellers Bank, ebay said it was down to banks not ebay, despite all other none ebay functions operated instantly.

Invoices were going to be a lot simpler - well!!!!!