Simple Delivery (or how eBay passes the buck when things go wrong)

[sword-calibrator]

A few weeks ago I sold a large vintage ceramic jug and bowl set as a 'buy it now'. It was going from Norfolk to the buyer in Devon.  Evri was selected as the preferred courier because of the weight and size of it and Simple Delivery had kicked in.
I packed the item up really well, double boxing both the bowl and the jug and placed it into the Evri network. A couple of days later, I received a message from the buyer saying that the bowl had arrived completely smashed although by some miracle, the jug remained intact. The buyer attached a photo of the bowl, still in its inner box in many pieces. It hadn't just been accidentally dropped, it looked like it had been kicked across the warehouse! The message from eBay indicated that a return request had been set up. Given the photo evidence I deemed it unnecessary and pointless to request the buyer to send the item back and refunded the buyer in full, believing I could just submit the photo to Evri and claim a refund off them.
How wrong I was!

I contacted Evri customer services and they told me that even though they were the courier, as Simple Delivery had been used, I had to contact eBay customer services, via their chatbot. I received a message saying that as I had refunded the buyer , the case was closed and that I shouldn't have refunded at that point.

Now, I have been selling on eBay for many years and have consistently held the 'Above Standard' seller rating and 100% positive feedback. I think it may have been because in the past when things have gone wrong, I have acted responsibly and always taken care of my buyers, replacing or refunding where necessary whilst acting as a good ambassador for the platform. In the past, a swift resolution to a buyer dispute by way of a refund has meant I've avoided feedback spats and related unpleasantness. If the matter was down to a failed delivery or damage in transit, I've then capitalized on my goodwill with the buyer to obtain photographic evidence, or a statement in order to recoup my losses through the negligent carrier. 

Now it seems that eBay have got into bed with the carriers and despite everything a responsible seller has been encouraged to do in the past has been swept under the carpet. I've even had an email from Evri saying that they were responsible but I have to chase eBay, who won't do anything because I did the right thing and issued a refund, much as  I have always done in the past. 

The loss isn't great to me. £14 including shipping cost. What really grinds my gears is that with this new Simple Delivery concept, management of carriers has now been taken away from sellers and it's all to easy to enter into the loop of endless buck passing.

I'm curious to know if anyone else has fallen into this rabbit hole.

[*vyolla*]

When this happens the buyer is supposed to open an eBay return and select the 'Arrived damaged' reason and then eBay issue a full refund to them.

If the seller goes ahead and issues a refund then eBay can't issue one retrospectively. 

[realspark]

It's worth making sure you understand how Simple Delivery works, and in particular the insurance coverage.

If you had instructed the buyer to open a return and select "Arrived damaged" (or "Item damaged" if using the app), you wouldn't have had to do anything - eBay would have refunded the buyer in full, without any intervention from you.

It's a lot easier than having to deal with a courier for loss or damage.

[4minutemile]

Thank you for pointing this issue out. ebay is introducing new problems because it suits their profit margins.

[4minutemile]

I don't want to understand how Simple Delivery works. I want to use real postage stamps because I am posting to philatelists and postal historians. Simple Delivery is TOTALLY UNSUITABLE for me and the people I sell to.

[realspark]

That's fair enough, and entirely up to you. I'm only saying that you should acquaint yourself with the terms of Simple Delivery so you don't come a cropper, like the OP.

Sadly, eBay have decided that this is how it's going to be, at least until they decide otherwise. You either have to make the best of the system as it is, or find somewhere else to sell.

[department28]

'It's worth making sure you understand how Simple Delivery works, and in particular the insurance coverage.

If you had instructed the buyer to open a return and select "Arrived damaged" (or "Item damaged" if using the app), you wouldn't have had to do anything - eBay would have refunded the buyer in full, without any intervention from you.'

Yes. Unfortunately, it is obvious that this is not yet 'common knowledge' amongst sellers who are new to Simple Delivery. There have been several posts similar to the OP's, where refunds have been given in good faith, without the seller realising it is now eBay that will do the refunding for 'arrived damaged' cases.

Until people are more familiar with this, perhaps eBay should add a pop-up box before a 'damaged item' refund is given:- 'You will not be eligible for cover if a refund is issued before the buyer has opened a return.' Or 'Please ensure you have read the T&Cs before refunding.'

I know we should all be checking the T&Cs, and it's not eBay's fault if we don't - but in these early days of Simple Delivery, a bit of flagging up about things like this would have been very helpful.

[cabletie555]

You should look at consumer protection rights, while I'm no legal expert, you purchased shipping and insurance from eBay and if they are refusing to provide the service you paid for, that's generally not permitted. Hopefully they will look at your case and eventually refund you.

[goonergal27]

Hello I’m in a similar situation to you. I sent a model Train via Evri simple delivery. The train was worth £75 the train arrived damaged and instead of marking it damaged he’s marked it defective so I’ve straightaway issued a refund.

However reading comments like yours I realize I should have pursued a refund with eBay but because he marked it as defective instead of marking it as damaged I’m now stuck in a position where I’ve got to refund this person when I didn’t send the item damaged. It was in perfect condition when I posted it ! 

Curious to know how you got on with your situation as eBay have told me that I have to pursue the compensation with Evri however I don’t think I will qualify for the full refund value and I’ll likely only get £20! 

[akemp1]

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@cabletie555 wrote:

You should look at consumer protection rights, while I'm no legal expert, you purchased shipping and insurance from eBay and if they are refusing to provide the service you paid for, that's generally not permitted. Hopefully they will look at your case and eventually refund you.

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The problem is that it's usually the buyer is purchasing the SD not the seller. So because the seller had already refunded then ebay are not going to refund the buyer again for the failure of their carrier.

I feel sympathy for sellers who are unaware of this subtle yet important distinction.

It's another complexity of SD that ebay should provide a mechanism to resolve fairly.

[akemp1]

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@goonergal27 wrote:

Curious to know how you got on with your situation as eBay have told me that I have to pursue the compensation with Evri however I don’t think I will qualify for the full refund value and I’ll likely only get £20! 

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If the buyer bought the SD then Evri won't want to hear from you as a seller so that's a very unsatisfactory response from ebay. Maybe try again with a different agent? SD is such a mess.

[sword-calibrator]

Hi goonergal27

I'm sorry to hear that you have fallen foul of the great eBay stitch-up that nobody wanted and everybody hates. I know how valuable and delicate these model railway items can be as I have sold some myself in the distant past.

Against my better nature, I let this one go since I only had to refund a total of £13.49. Annoying, but it wasn't worth banging my head against a brick wall for. Clearly eBay had negotiated hard with the main carriers when they introduced SD and I guess part of that deal to relax the weight/ dimensions rules was that carriers were not to be bothered by claims from sellers when items got lost or damaged. eBay DID NOT make this clear to the selling community at all. Nor did eBay make it easy to speak to a human agent either. It is possible but you need time and patience.

On a more positive note, I received an email from eBay on 5th September which I have copied below:-


Hi Paul,



We’ve listened to your feedback and made Simple Delivery optional for more items priced £20 or less. This includes items in categories like Trading cards, Coins and Stamps, which are typically letter or large letter-sized and 100g or under.



It’s an update that gives you more choice. You can choose a low-cost, untracked delivery option when protections aren’t essential, or stick with Simple Delivery to benefit from prepaid labels and automatic tracking, all at competitive prices. Learn more about this update<>.

Simple Delivery comes with more protections

There’s full coverage from the moment your item is scanned by the courier until it’s confirmed delivered. You’re also protected against loss or damage, and you won’t need to handle buyer claims yourself. If delivery issues come up, you can even request that neutral or negative feedback is removed through Seller Help. Best of all, late deliveries won’t impact your seller performance standards or service metrics.

Improvements to Buyer Protection that support your sales

As a reminder, we’ve recently reduced the buyer fee from £0.75 to £0.10 to make your lower-priced items more appealing to buyers. You’ll notice the greatest impact on items priced £10 or less.



The updated rates will appear automatically on your listings. The fee is still included in the item price, so there are no surprises for buyers at checkout.



You can now also use our live calculator when you list to find out what price buyers will see. Just enter a price to see the Buyer Protection fee in real time. We’ve also made some changes to how the buyer fee is broken out from the item price, so you’ll know exactly what you’ll receive when making or reviewing offers. Learn more about the update<>.



If you have any questions or concerns, just get in touch<>. We’re here to help.



Thanks for being a part of the eBay community.

[eBay]<>
I think this shows that with SD, they realised they had dropped a huge bollock, but in your case, for an item valued at £75, I would insist that it is escalated to a much higher level than the customer-facing 'script-readers'. I would add that the buyer isn't qualified to seal the fate of the case by simply ticking the wrong box and on this occasion, a goodwill gesture of a refund to you would not only save them a lot of grief in having to deal with an unhappy seller, but would reflect better on them, especially as they realise they are fighting a rear guard action over the SD.

I wish you well, together with anyone else who has been caught out by trying to do the right thing and put their customer first.

[sword-calibrator]

Hi.

Thanks for the message. I agree in principle but my loss amounted to £13.49 and given the difficulty required to break through the 'script-reader' level customer service agents, it's not worth the damage to my blood pressure while I struggle to understand someone who is based in Manila.

I feel sorry for the contributor who sustained a £75 plus loss on case because the buyer ticked the wrong reason for return and have reached out to them in another message. I think it's not so much loss that's the problem here but the fact that the hub employees of a certain low cost delivery company are prone to 'night fever' when they are on minimum wage and minimum supervision, where 'Pass the Parcel' becomes a game.

Big shout out to my regular Evri delivery guy. He takes the utmost care of my inbound parcels.

[sml192]

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@goonergal27 wrote

Curious to know how you got on with your situation as eBay have told me that I have to pursue the compensation with Evri however I don’t think I will qualify for the full refund value and I’ll likely only get £20! 

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That is extremely bad advice that you have been given there.  If the item was sent using Simple Delivery then you have no contract with Evri.  The contract is between Ebay and Evri, and eBay is, therefore, the deemed sender (whether it is the buyer or the seller that pays eBay for the postage is not relevant).  Unfortunately, all you can do now is to appeal to eBay. 

[martineaton]

Yes I also learned the hard way - I found out that I should never refund directly, as the contract is between Ebay and Evri.

Ebay refund the buyer and the seller keeps the money 

This is not clearly explained

[tressygirl]

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@martineaton wrote: 

Ebay refund the buyer and the seller keeps the money 

This is not clearly explained

It is clearly explained in their Simple Delivery terms...

Get full coverage for your items

From the moment your item is scanned by the courier until delivery confirmation, the full value of the item is covered against loss or damage during transit. Plus, you won’t have to worry about responding to buyer claims.

See the link below for SD , explaining the process.  I'm not saying it's faultless,  far from it,  but sellers when using SD correctly,  and items are lost or damaged in the post,  eBay fully refund the buyer, and sellers get to keep the payouts here.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sellercentre/postage/simple-delivery?mkevt=1&mkpid=2&emsid=0&mkcid=8&bu=43952...

@martineaton

@martineaton

[cabletie555]

Thanks to reading this thread when I recently had a Simple Delivery item arrive damaged, when the buyer contacted me I immediately advised them to contact eBay. It was a bit annoying though because it was an oversize item and I could have sent it by one of the other couriers I have used previously without issues for less than what eBay charged for shipping, and also I don't like to see my items broken and all the effort of selling and posting them wasted even if I do get compensated financially.

 However, things elsewhere are not what they used to be so Simple Delivery may be a better option for some cases. Royal Mail now require a receipt for what you paid for an item to make an insurance claim, and very little of what I sell meets this requirement. They still refund private sellers at their discretion, and when a Royal Mail item also arrived damaged recently I filed a claim and they refunded me, but the payment was in stamps which is slightly less convenient than cash. So although problems are very rare with Royal Mail, their new T&C's as written leave you sending items uninsured and reliant solely on their goodwill if you use their service directly.

[nialled]

As a regular buyer, I completely understand what you are saying.
I think there are two problems here.  The first is that ebay seem to be taking the choice of carrier away from the suppliers and the other is that Evri are so utterly, utterly useless.
It fills me with dread when I see that Evri have been used for delivery as they have lost two packages already this month alone.
The suppliers should be free to use whichever courier they think is best. It will make for much better ebay transactions

[podlingsmum]

Private sellers are not suppliers. Not sure why you've used that terminology here?

[nialled]

My apologies. Force of habit I'm afraid from years of dealing with supplers in my work. I will try not to make that mistake again