Simple Delivery, Complicated, Partially Refunded Angry Buyer

[cwedge89]

Had a right nighymare with Simple delivery and eBay customer service last few days.

Im a private seller, I occasionally sell old car parts on eBay, I haven't sold much for a while obviously things on eBay have changed a bit this year.

I sold an old car light last week and opted to use eBay's simple delivery service for the first time. 

Item was in good condition with good close up images etc, I dispatched the item quickly, upon delivery the buyer contacted me claiming the item was damaged.

He sent a picture showing a very small scratch/crack which wasn't present before it was shipped.

I apologised for the inconvenience and said I would happily offer a partial refund if he wanted to keep the light or arrange a return and issue a full refund. 

The buyer requested a full refund, which was fine, I asked him to raise a return request on eBay so I could process the return and issue a return shipping label.

Now prior to recent ebay changes this is the process I would follow previously, however on this occasion eBay notified me that a case was opened, however as I had used Simple delivery they would handle the request and I didn't need to do anything. (I couldn't anyway)

This is where it all gets a bit messy, the buyer provides evidence to eBay and based on that evidence eBay have decided its been damaged in transit, but the damage shown was not deemed sufficient enough to warrant a full refund, eBay therefore decide to only issue the buyer 25% refund, eBay then close the case.

It's important to note at no point in that process have I been involved, i.e I've not disputed his claim or provided any counter evidence, eBay have made the decision purely on the evidence he supplied.

As I used Simple delivery and the item was damaged in transit, I'm not deemed to be liable for the refund, eBay have therefore released my funds and also covered the 25% refund to the buyer.

The buyer's obviously not happy with the outcome of eBays decision, I've had several emails from him today demanding that I arrange a return and issue a refund. 

However I simply don't have that option available to me on eBay to issue the return/refund that he's requesting.

I've spoken to eBay several times today to clarify this position and they've confirmed its case closed nothing more they can do.

I totally understand the buyers frustration but what's really not helping is that he's been told by eBay, that despite the case being closed he can contact me to arrange a return and refund.

My feeling is they are either giving him incorrect information because customer service don't really understand that its covered by them as it was damaged in transit and I used Simple delievry but more importantly I dont have the functionality on eBay to raise a return.

Has anyone had a similar experience?

What else can I possibly do?

eBay have advised that I can simply block the buyer and they will remove any negative feedback left. 

But that's not the point, he's had a s***t experience and I've had an equally s**t one spending the day responding to his angry emails and speaking to eBay trying to figure out what I should/shouldn't be doing. 

To add insult to injury he's told me to stop selling on ebay and that he's leaving negative feedback because I've ducked my responsibility to resolve his issue which seems a bit harsh.

[suelel1968]

Looks like everyone is in stunned silence on this one mate. So if your bucket gets cracked during delivery do you only get a partial refund because it still looks like a bucket?

I can't help with any experience except to say the buyer bought the label and fighting for refund of postage cost and item value lies with the buyer. 

You are totally right about the outcome being a sh*t experience for the buyer, but there is nothing you can do, or are expected to do. Sometimes it just feels sh*t to be the winner.

If you want to take it any further you could try contacting CS in the early morning as you often get to talk to staff in Ireland, at least you might find the response more genuine.

Wow, just wow!

[department28]

This sort of situation shows how complicated selling on eBay has become these days. When everything goes well, it is fine, but when a problem arises, it can turn into a very exasperating, time-consuming business...

Before this wretched Simple Delivery, you would have been able to do as the buyer requested - return the item for a full refund. It is eBay 'deciding' they can only offer 25% that has messed this up for you. 

'I totally understand the buyers frustration but what's really not helping is that he's been told by eBay, that despite the case being closed he can contact me to arrange a return and refund.'

Hopefully someone will be able to clarify this. Perhaps eBay mean that the buyer can appeal the decision of the case, even though they have told you the case is closed? It is a pity the buyer has become unpleasant, as it sounds like you have been doing all you can to get this sorted.

The returns procedure used to be a lot easier for sellers before it all became so 'automated'...

[j.p.greenwood]

I've read this through a couple of times and am in shock if it's a comprehensive description of what's happened (not doubting you, just sometimes important details can be missed in the telling).

The reason I am shocked is that by E-Bay making this decision, they, from a legal viewpoint, are determining that they are the 'principal' in the transaction, not an agent (sales site) acting for you the seller.

Two suggestions, first is a PITA but could end up important.  Write a comprehensive contemporaneous note of the full history of this transaction, from when you did the initial listing till this post.  Include everything, listing info, messages, phone calls, everything with the date and time when it happened, then E-Mail it to yourself so there's a time stamp of when you did it.

Secondly, while I appreciate you want to help the buyer, you cannot because of the E-Bay limitations, so the best you could do is advise the buyer to look at his legal options, including recovery through small claims, if I was the buyer I'd certainly be looking to issue a 'letter before action' directed at E-Bay who made this decision.  However, the buyer may understandably feel this is too much trouble, they need to make that decision.

I'm still trying to process the precedent here though and its implications.

[tressygirl]

dave@ebay  marco@ebay

Could you please read the above post , did the CS agent act correctly under Simple Delivery rules and send a PARTIAL refund for a damaged item, instead of a Full refund ?  !!

Under SD,  isn't the buyer covered for a Full refund on receiving a damaged item, and why didn't eBay's MBG not come into this when the buyer opened a case?  

Please tell us all, that this was an error on CS' part and it's not the norm to offer buyers partial refunds and not the full refund they are entitled to, leaving upset buyers and perplexed sellers!  🤔

[cwedge89]

Thanks for your suggestion,

I think the issue is as I've used Simple delivery and they've deemed that the damage was caused in transit which it was, then from a liability standpoint its sat with them.

Ebay should have issued the buyer with a full refund. 

What's over complicating things now is them telling him to pursue me for a full refund which I can't physically action even if I could that's defeating the whole object of using this Simple delivery to cover sellers in the event of loss or damage in transit.

[cwedge89]

Thanks,

I spoke to one of the Irish CS guys yesterday morning and he was very helpful. 

He confirmed that the case was closed and that eBay had deemed the damage was no sufficient for a full refund. 

In all honesty I would happily have given him a full refund on return of the item, but that options never been open to me.

In one sense the Simple delivery in this instance has worked and covered the seller because the item was damaged in transit. 

However eBays decision to not fully refund the buyer has caused all this unnecessary back and forth. 

[*vyolla*]

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@cwedge89 wrote:

Thanks,

I spoke to one of the Irish CS guys yesterday morning and he was very helpful. 

He confirmed that the case was closed and that eBay had deemed the damage was no sufficient for a full refund. 

---

After we spoke in your original thread on Member to Member support yesterday I again trawled through the various terms and conditions, got AI to check too, and can find nothing that covers this scenario of eBay deciding to offer just a partial refund for buyers in receipt of damaged items. I can think of no scenario in which I'd be happy with just a partial refund for any damaged item I've received in the past. A small chip on the type of ceramic vase I collect devalues it by 98%.

It doesn't make much sense, to make judgement calls on whether a chip on a glass vase makes it acceptable to the buyer with a partial refund would surely require eBay to have a team of humans looking at claims of damage in transit, or AI is geared up to look for words like 'chip' or 'crack' and deem them acceptable. If it truly is how the new Buyer Protection is going to work, buyers will just be taking a hammer to their purchases to make sure that they get their full refund. 

Hopefully we'll get some clarity on this soon, this is just so weird. 

[tressygirl]

@cwedge89   wrote:    I spoke to one of the Irish CS guys yesterday morning and he was very helpful. 

He confirmed that the case was closed and that eBay had deemed the damage was no sufficient for a full refund. 

How on earth can eBay deem the damage was not worthy of a full refund.   They don't see the item in question.  Yes, the buyer says ' small crack' but that in a car headlight surely may get bigger so the item is not fit for purpose, long term anyway.  I'm with your thinking,  that a full refund was due here.

OK,  SD worked , item damaged in transit so no full refund? However, that seems then this over rides eBay's 30 day MBG because if an item is received damaged it used to be deemed ( has this changed too?)  that the seller had inadequate packaging, an item is received, not as described,( damaged),  therefore, MBG provides a Full refund.

Again ,  dave@ebay  marco@ebay  does this mean eBay's MBG is overtaken by SD rules when a return is made for the reasons above ?  If so, surely then the MBG needs rewriting?

[kath3735_wxmjn]

and possibly lost themselves a future buyer!  Called 'shooting yourself in the foot'!

[cwedge89]

I completely agree, I wouldn't put a damaged car part on my vehicle, that defeats the whole object of purchasing a replacement part in the first place. 

100% eBay should have issued the buyer a full refund, I absolutely understand why he angry and thats why he's paid a buyers protection fee ultimately.  

eBay have messed up here left a buyer disgruntled and put me in the firing line without the means to resolve it.

I shouldn't have to anyway as I used the Simple delivery service to protect me against damages.

[kath3735_wxmjn]

the whole SD system needs re writing!

[tressygirl]

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@kath3735_wxmjn wrote:

the whole SD system needs re writing!

---

Ha!   Ha !   😁  that is SO  true !

[j.p.greenwood]

There's something that goes into the liability melting pot......

Who 'bought and paid' for the 'Simple Delivery', therefore who is bound by its terms?

If the Seller paid for it, then E-Bay have no legal basis on which to 'impose' their decision on the buyer, that's why them now acting as 'the principal' in the transaction becomes an important precedent going forward.

The potential implications of this would change how E-Bay are a party to every transaction on E-Bay.

[cwedge89]

I purchased the Simple delivery service not the buyer. 

It was explained to me on the phone that this protected me in the event the item was damaged in transit. 

Ebay have obviously deemed that to be the case, I've had absolutely no input into that decision i.e ive not provided any evidence other than the original listing that the item wasn't damaged.

I've also had no input or ability to dispute the buyers claim or request for a return (Not that I would) 

So the decision and the situation both myself and the buyer find ourselves in is totally of eBays own making. 

I can't do anything my end physically, and even of I could that would make the whole point of the protections of both the Simply delivery and Buyers protection utterly pointless in this instance.

[j.p.greenwood]

I know my suggestions earlier mean a load of work for you, but honestly doing it now could well be time well spent later as contemporaneous notes are only valid if done close to when the event(s) happened, so time matters.

[cwedge89]

Thanks and will do.

Hopefully this is a one off situation and the decision to partially refund the buyer is mistake on eBays part, had they just done that both they buyer and myself would be happy with the outcome.

If this is the new norm and eBay are going to challenge returns like this then selling on eBay is just not worth the hassle.

[notchrissblood]

Ebay is finished if this nonsense continues. I know several people who have already left over it. All the recent changes need to be reversed asap.

[akemp1]

It's shocking if ebay have started forcing partial refunds on buyers for SD items damaged in post. They may no longer want or need a damaged item.

As a buyer I would always expect the option of returning for a full refund even if ebay haven't made arrangements for what to do with these items it's their fault for forcing unwanted SD onto private sales.

Like the return addres on the SD label Ebay want all the delivery profit without the obligations that come with taking on deliver responsibilitie such as processing failed deliveries or returned damaged items.

Ebay have become a disgrace - their management should be ashamed of themselves. Its no mystery why people are buying and selling elsewhere it's getting very stinky here.

[hugothecockapoo]

The same team that wrote the ESTIMATED delivery dates program has a hand in this SD program 🙈