Simple Delivery, Complicated, Partially Refunded Angry Buyer

[cwedge89]

Had a right nighymare with Simple delivery and eBay customer service last few days.

Im a private seller, I occasionally sell old car parts on eBay, I haven't sold much for a while obviously things on eBay have changed a bit this year.

I sold an old car light last week and opted to use eBay's simple delivery service for the first time. 

Item was in good condition with good close up images etc, I dispatched the item quickly, upon delivery the buyer contacted me claiming the item was damaged.

He sent a picture showing a very small scratch/crack which wasn't present before it was shipped.

I apologised for the inconvenience and said I would happily offer a partial refund if he wanted to keep the light or arrange a return and issue a full refund. 

The buyer requested a full refund, which was fine, I asked him to raise a return request on eBay so I could process the return and issue a return shipping label.

Now prior to recent ebay changes this is the process I would follow previously, however on this occasion eBay notified me that a case was opened, however as I had used Simple delivery they would handle the request and I didn't need to do anything. (I couldn't anyway)

This is where it all gets a bit messy, the buyer provides evidence to eBay and based on that evidence eBay have decided its been damaged in transit, but the damage shown was not deemed sufficient enough to warrant a full refund, eBay therefore decide to only issue the buyer 25% refund, eBay then close the case.

It's important to note at no point in that process have I been involved, i.e I've not disputed his claim or provided any counter evidence, eBay have made the decision purely on the evidence he supplied.

As I used Simple delivery and the item was damaged in transit, I'm not deemed to be liable for the refund, eBay have therefore released my funds and also covered the 25% refund to the buyer.

The buyer's obviously not happy with the outcome of eBays decision, I've had several emails from him today demanding that I arrange a return and issue a refund. 

However I simply don't have that option available to me on eBay to issue the return/refund that he's requesting.

I've spoken to eBay several times today to clarify this position and they've confirmed its case closed nothing more they can do.

I totally understand the buyers frustration but what's really not helping is that he's been told by eBay, that despite the case being closed he can contact me to arrange a return and refund.

My feeling is they are either giving him incorrect information because customer service don't really understand that its covered by them as it was damaged in transit and I used Simple delievry but more importantly I dont have the functionality on eBay to raise a return.

Has anyone had a similar experience?

What else can I possibly do?

eBay have advised that I can simply block the buyer and they will remove any negative feedback left. 

But that's not the point, he's had a s***t experience and I've had an equally s**t one spending the day responding to his angry emails and speaking to eBay trying to figure out what I should/shouldn't be doing. 

To add insult to injury he's told me to stop selling on ebay and that he's leaving negative feedback because I've ducked my responsibility to resolve his issue which seems a bit harsh.

[pauuk.35za36]

Out of interest do you have a photo of the damage?

The buyer could possibly have a high return rate, which may influence Ebay's generosity when it comes to providing a full refund. Unfortunately there are some bad buyers on here, which this one could be given that he is spamming your inbox.

[cwedge89]

Yes I guess that's a possibility. 

This is the image he sent, now my first thought was it looks like a light scratch as opposed to a crack, looking at my original images it doesn't appear to be present. 

For context its a 20 year old used car part, it was listed in good condition with usual age related marks, fully working.

 

Now I wasn't disputing his claim, I would have happily sent a return label and refund if I could just to avoid the hassle.

[dls-online]

This whole situation is crazy! I'm so sorry to hear what's happened to the OP. He sounds like a genuinely nice fella, but ebay have put him in an impossible position.

I was aware SD doesn't provide much (if any) protection to a seller for huge swaths of different items, but although SD is awkward for a buyer, I didn't realise the buyer had less cover too.

Really hope we can have any updates on this matter as and when they emerge. Would be good if the ebay reps who were tagged into this thread would comment too.

This whole Simple Delivery malarkey is an absolute minefield. Talk about complex and uncertain. The exact opposite of what they've tried advertising it as.

[lucy_farmer]

This whole business is pretty confusing, as there's another facet to it that I've just looked up....

Vehicle lights are on the 'excluded list'.

(which is on the Evri site. If you haven't read it, please do.. it's good for a giggle...)

So, according to ebay's T's and C's , various answers from ebay staff and the evidence of other recent cases, vehicle lights should be excluded from Simple Delivery altogether.

(But you're unlikely to find that out until something goes wrong and you need to use your simple delivery 'rights'.)

This half-way house solution is really strange.

If your buyer gets really p'eed off with you, send him to these forums! Then he'll see it's not the sellers being a p.i.t.a. , it's ebay itself shoving spanners in the works.

[vinylscot]

I still can't believe that this would be the new process. It just doesn't make any sense.

I'm sure there's either something more to this story, or there has been some misunderstanding along the way. Perhaps the partial refund was offered, and the buyer accepted by mistake - we all know how easy it is to press the wrong button on sone of these pages.

I see a couple of the eBay bods have been tagged, and I'll be interested to see their response.

[*vyolla*]

I've got a few questions. So, sellers have some kind of protection under Simple Delivery if an item doesn't arrive or arrives damaged, which is good.

Buyers pay extra for Buyer Protection if they buy from a private seller.  eBay's Money Back Guarantee, which wasn't subject to additional fees from the buyer is also there. 

The million dollar question is, why didn't the buyer get a full refund under eBay's Buyer Protection scheme? What, exactly, are they paying for?

Buyer Protection appears to run in tandem with the MBG.

If you click on the 'Learn More about Buyer protection link on this Buyer Protection guidance page:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/buying/paying-items/buyer-protection-fee?id=5594&st=3&pos=2&query=Buyer%...

it takes you here:

https://pages.ebay.co.uk/buyerprotection/

As soon as you’ve made your purchase, your free eBay Money Back Guarantee coverage kicks in. If your item doesn’t arrive or match the description, or is faulty or damaged, you can request a refund within 30 days.

Another question I'd be asking is if the buyer issues a chargeback, as well as having to fully refund do eBay absorb the admin fee for that transaction? Presumably they do as they've made a previous judgement.

[cwedge89]

Certainly from my side I couldn't have done anything differently, my account of what's happened is exactly how it's played out. 

Despite the decision ultimately being in my favour in the sense that I've still received payment for an item damaged in transit I've still tried to find a resolution for the buyer, I simply can't do what he's asking via the eBay platform and technically I shouldn't have to. 

What I really don't know it's been handled his end, his reasons for requesting the return or like you say has he accidentally accepted the partial refund. 

It will be interesting to see what the eBay bods say, I will keep people posted if anything comes of it my end.

Hopefully the buyer will continue to pursue this via eBay as I can't do anything further to help my end.

[department28]

'the whole SD system needs re writing!'

Perhaps SD will decide it is damaged/not working properly, and offer itself a partial refund?

[oldbargainbits]

Sorry but the damage does seem to be visible on your listing photo ( I know that doesn't change the principle of the argument!..)

light

[cwedge89]

Possibly, but without the light being returned it's impossible to determine if that's a scratch or crack from both my listing photos and the one provided by the seller. 

If you study the pictures closely they have numerous marks consistent with age. 

Either way had the decision been mine I would simply have issued a refund, inspected the item on return and decided what to do with it, either chuck it or resell at a lower price, the point is I couldn't make that call ebay did.

[elderscr-0]

Im seriously frustrated and annoyed with ebay with regards to their very controlling limited ways which im convinced is absolutely deliberate on their part because it suits their purposes Evri are even worse they should be literally forced to either change for the better or be closed down and they definately should not be allowed to change their company name again  

[johnwash1]

Perhaps the seller can also ask the buyer to oblige by writing contemporaneous notes, since this looks like something that could become a serious test case.

And perhaps there are journalists, R4 MoneyBox, and others, who might be curious.

[thepillenwerfer]

The screenshots posted by *vyolla* talk about the buyer getting a REFUND. They don't explicitly say a FULL refund.

My main concern about Simple Delivery is that it splits responsibility so much.  On the old system it was clear that in a case like this the Seller would be liable for the refund and they could then seek redress from the carrier, which would most likely get them nowhere as they exclude so many things but you knew and accepted that risk when you listed something.

The situation under discussion seems to turn e-Bay's default stance of Buyers are Always Right and Sellers are Always Wrong on it's head and makes an utter nonsense of the MBG.  It doesn't overly concern me as a Seller but as a Buyer is does.

[cwedge89]

**UPDATE**

Potentially a positive outcome, fingers crossed anyway. 

I reached out to the buyer again this morning, and went it detail to clarify the position I was in from my side in relation to not being able to facilitate a return via eBay, advising him to reach out to eBay again to challenge the original decision to partially refund. 

He's responded, with some potentially positive news.

He rang them again yesterday to try and get some clarity with their policy and who was responsible.

After explaining the situation the customer service member tried to tell him that he received a full refund, which he disputed, somethings clearly gone wrong here.

eBay have agreed to look into the case to try and get a full refund issued but could not guarantee the outcome.

He also asked if you the seller was responsible in any way for the refund beyond there ruling and they confirmed I was not responsible.

He's annoyed as am I that the misinformation regarding my responsibility and ability to resolve this has frustrated both of us and wasted a lot of time.

He should hopefully receive a full refund, within 3 days. 

He said he would still leave me positive feedback regardless of the outcome thanked me for my efforts and apologised that he implied you I was to blame.

I've gone back to him obviously thanked him for his response, offered to provide any additional detail if he needs it. 

So fingers crossed it's just an error on eBays part on this occasion and not the new norm 

Hopefully he gets a full refund in the next few days. 

Thank-you all for the support and guidance around this situation its been very much appreciated. 

[lavenderthimblebunny]

I just came to read this thread having read the original question on the member to member board.  It's a shame there isn't likely to be a definitive answer coming from ebay on this, but I'll watch with interest.

OP, I think you have done all you can for your buyer.

[sparklysporran]

Could not agree more ! They have totally messed up with this compulsory simple delivery - total nightmare

[*vyolla*]

@cwedge89 

Great news that the buyer now realises that this is beyond your control, sounds like a very positive outcome. That must've lifted a load of stress!

Also seems that this may be some kind of error on eBay's part, and not how claims for damage via Simple Delivery should work, though some clarification is still required on their part.

[cwedge89]

Absolutely, I wasn't expecting a response from him to be honest, he was understandably fuming yesterday, so kudos to him for coming back to me he certainly seems happier now he's got more clarity on the situation. 

It does seem like this was potentially an error on eBay's part so hopefully he get's the positive out come he deserves.

It's certainly been an experience I don't wish to repeat in the future.

[kath3735_wxmjn]

the problem is that this should never have happened.  It is not a small error/glitch that is probably a one off, it is potentially a minefield for both sellers and buyers.   

[kath3735_wxmjn]

'some kind of error on e bay's part' but it should not even be possible to have this kind of error.  Either people are covered or not, how many times has this happened already without anyone questioning it?     They brought in SD a while ago on a voluntary basis which should have given them time to sort out the glitches but instead they just ploughed on regardless and it was a disastrous start even for those happy to use it.