HMRC data sharing

[charliestell]

Can someone confirm when they have stated "starting January 1st 2024" they will being to share all data with HMRC does that mean that all sales starting from Jan 1st 2024 will be shared in the new format? I know historically that they have shared data but is this new rule in relation to all sales from 1st Jan 24 or everything historically?

I'm not a master criminal or a huge fraudster I literally sell £200 - £300 a month on here so think I may be over this limit and fear a taxman letter. 

[ett1954]

I think that may be sign of the chaos that might come when platforms rush to comply with their obligations having left everything to the last minute and have not tested their protocols adequately beforehand.

To be fair to eBay at least they will gaining feedback and experience by, what seems to be, their phased implementation.

[555njp]

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@kempseykate wrote:

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@555njp wrote:

Whilst you are deleting the record, I think Facebook must still have it. Otherwise the marketplace could be full of stolen or illegal (dangerous) goods?
Pretty sure as an online platform there has to be some level of traceability?

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I'm sure they may still have it - but how do they know whether it was sold or not? 

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I suspect they'll do an initial sweep of all platforms to see who needs further investigation (selling loads, no tax return, or also claiming benefits etc.). Then they'll be looking to see if that person is active elsewhere (I.e Facebook).
The fact someone is listing several items (meeting whatever criteria they are looking for) might be enough to follow up whether sold or not as the intent is there.

They can quickly cross-match the info and decide whether it's worth going after.

My guess is the initial thresholds will be reasonably high as they'll need to pay for and justify those additional employees. However, with AI and the availability of virtually every digital transaction at hand they might drill down into the smaller offenders later on?

I guess we'll see next year once the stories start to come out......

[Anonymous]

Can anyone clarify is this counts for items that you sell and eBay send you payouts for?

Or can people decide not to get paid out and instead store their money in the new eBay funds thingy? meaning no tax man and eBay also earn some interest for looking after it.

[*vyolla*]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Can anyone clarify is this counts for items that you sell and eBay send you payouts for?

Or can people decide not to get paid out and instead store their money in the new eBay funds thingy? meaning no tax man and eBay also earn some interest for looking after it.

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Your sales will still be reported to HMRC.

[555njp]

It's 30 items sold or roughly £1700 in sales (value). Doesn't matter if you leave the money with eBay or draw it down, those are the thresholds at which point eBay (or any online platform) have to pass the info to HMRC.

What HMRC will actually do with it is anyones guess!

[isnakebite]

I'm not an expert in these matters but the significant difference between selling on ebay and selling in FB marketplace or FB sales groups is that you have to provide your NI  number on ebay.

So you are correct not only does FB not know whether it was sold but also exactly who sold it.

FB sales groups tend to advise sellers to use G&S paypal. I don't know if HRMC are aware of monet received by paypal.

I'm expecting either an overhaul of how marketplace is ised or it being pulled from the UK

[isnakebite]

There is nothing to confirm. Ebay stated that they started Jan 2024 so you have to work with that.

Worst case scenario you're contacted and you will have to prove that the annual £2400-£3600 you received is not from trading.  If you don't sell anywhere else you deduct £1k, then all the ebay fees up to October, postage costs etc

[the_book_seekers]

 If you don't sell anywhere else you deduct £1k, then all the ebay fees up to October, postage costs etc

The £1000 you mention is a trading allowance for would be businesses. Using it is an either or situation. Either you claim the trading allowance or you claim expenses (ebay fees, postage, etc). HMRC doesn't allow the trading allowance and expenses to be claimed in the same year.

[mohaak_5002]

I honestly don't know, I sold some old stock I had, at a loss, 34 items and £997 in 90 days, they have just requested my NI, private seller,  I  have done the HMRC questionaire, and it says I don;'t need to delcare,  I reckon that's incorrect.  

[mohaak_5002]

can't attach more than one picture 

 honestly don't know, I sold some old stock I had, at a loss, 34 items and £997 in 90 days, they have just requested my NI, private seller,  I  have done the HMRC questionaire, and it says I don;'t need to delcare,  I reckon that's incorrect. 

[mohaak_5002]

can't attach more than one picture 

[mohaak_5002]

can't attach more than one picture

[sml192]

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@mohaak_5002 wrote:

I honestly don't know, I sold some old stock I had, at a loss, 34 items and £997 in 90 days, they have just requested my NI, private seller,  I  have done the HMRC questionaire, and it says I don;'t need to delcare,  I reckon that's incorrect.  

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If you sell more than 30 items or 2,000 euros (approximately £1,700) in value in a year (Jan to Dec) then eBay are obliged to report your sales to HMRC and, therefore, require your NI number in order to do so.

That doesn't necessarily mean that you will need to pay tax or even complete a Self Assessment.  That will depend on whether you are a private or business seller (private sellers don't have to pay any tax unless any of their sales are over the threshold for Capital Gains Tax) and if you are a business seller whether your turnover for the tax year (Apr 6th to Apr 5th) is greater than the £1,000 trading allowance.

If you are selling old stock relating to a business then you probably should be registered as a business as the stock  wouldn't be classed as unwanted personal possessions. 

[bagsbydiamonds]

You are allowed to earn £1,000 a year or sell 30 items a year. HMRC has requested that all selling platforms communicate about anyone selling £1.7k a year or over.  They will then look at whether anyone is selling over that limit and they will check whether a seller has been listing on multiple sites. If you have been exceeding those limits HMRC will request backdated accounts for the last 7 years. If you have not retained records of your sales HMRC will be able to obtain that information from the marketplaces. They will calculate the taxes you owe them and you may get a hefty fine. Some people are breaking all the rules and might find that they owe up to 6 years of VAT. In your case you won't be required to pay VAT if you are only selling £200-£300 a month. By the time they write to you they will have all the information on your sales so they will know if you have lied and that's when they fine you. If you are selling more than £1.7k a year I recommend you register as a business with HMRC and also register on the marketplaces as a business. That way you will be able to sleep at night instead of worrying about getting caught.

[jaws30342015]

Correct

[papso22]

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@jaws30342015 wrote:
Correct

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No, a lot of that post was incorrect.

[jaws30342015]

Explain why seems correct to me

[papso22]

The 7 pages on this thread contain a number of posts with the correct information in, perhaps you would like to read through those?

Essentially though, no-one who is selling off their own unwanted personal possessions will have a tax bill, should register for self assessment or change to a business account.

What HMRC will do with the information they get is currently unknown but they have done campaigns on online traders before and they haven't gone in heavy handed as that poster implied.  

It's just scaremongering, but feel free to believe it if you want.

[vintique*violet]

People are forgetting that the standard Personal Allowance is £12,570, which is the amount of income you do not have to pay tax on.

Many people do not earn that , part-time jobs etc etc

If you are concerned you have sold personal items which take you over your personal allowance give HMRC a call and ask. 

You do not have to register as a business for selling over the £1750 of PERSONAL items... that is ridiculous. 

No one can force you to become a business when you are not, even if you have sold personal items over the £1750 or 30 items per year. 

I feel personally this is to " catch" those on benefits who have not declared extra income and/or businesses who are masquerading in the private etc. 

And - to monitor and control everything everyone is doing for  data harvesting!  Your data is sold and companies make bank on it... if you are not aware of this already, again  research this also. 

Please read on here what others are saying, but also research for yourself,  and please stop fearing. 

Conversation with an ebay agent ( for what it is worth) 

I have sold over the limit of items apparently " allowed " 

Agent " you will not be affected as selling your own personal items."

Go figure?...

[greasy_9]

If I start a 10 day auction on 22nd Dec so that it ends on 1st Jan, it should only be reported as part of the 2025 data (which would be sent to HMRC in Jan 2026), right?