Ebay's new Buyers' protection fee from the 4th Feb

[rsbrickshop]

I'm a private seller. Items I sell are between £2.90 - £10. Is It just me or will ebay's new Buyers' protection fee from the 4th Feb make it near impossible to sell competitively. A few months ago Ebay got rid of Sellers' fees for private sellers, which was a welcome move. But this new change and getting rid of multi-buy discount for private sellers will make it worse than it was with the original fees.

[ett1954]

"If the seller has done a thorough job with their description, there should be no excuse for a change of mind return" - just to add to what @papso22 has stated.  When purchasing from a business seller online the buyer doesn't need to state a reason for the return of goods.  Under the 'cooling off ' period granted to a buyer in the Consumer Rights Act they have a right to return for any reason, or no reason at all, for a minimum of 14 days after receipt.

The seller does have a right to expect the buyer to pay the return costs for a change of mind return providing it is stated in their returns policy.

[gaudsman]

I totally agree.  I shall be leaving Ebay too in the near future.  Such a shame as it was a good platform to sell.

[johnwash1]

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@papso22 wrote:

Business sellers do not have to pay for change of mind returns, but they can choose to do so.

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That's hardly the point, is it.  Sellers could also choose to compensate the buyer with an extra £100.  I wasn't asking a hypothetical "what could sellers choose to do".  From what I'm seeing here I don't see any difference between what I do, i.e. my settings are such that buyers can return change of mind items to me at their own expense and buyers from business sellers can return change of mind items to them at their own expense.

Since I have such fair conditions for buyers, perhaps I should petition ebay to reduce the buyers protection fee on my items.  Yeah, as if.

[johnwash1]

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@ett1954 wrote:

"If the seller has done a thorough job with their description, there should be no excuse for a change of mind return" - just to add to what @papso22 has stated.  When purchasing from a business seller online the buyer doesn't need to state a reason for the return of goods.  Under the 'cooling off ' period granted to a buyer in the Consumer Rights Act they have a right to return for any reason, or no reason at all, for a minimum of 14 days after receipt.

The seller does have a right to expect the buyer to pay the return costs for a change of mind return providing it is stated in their returns policy.

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I don't think I made my view clear.  First, surely it's axiomatic that if the buyer gives no reason at all (is there such an option in an ebay dropdown?) then that's the same as a change of mind  return.  It happens.  People are inattentive, quixotic, challenged, etc, and I'm saying that, no matter what kind of seller they're dealing with they shouldn't expect the seller to be forced to pay the return postage, only to accept the return.

I'm glad that business sellers aren't  forced to pay such return postage, even  though some may choose to do so.

[dch2112011]

The point may be that private account holders have the choice not to accept remorse returns but business account holders must accept remorse returns which is the fundamental difference between the two types of account returns when both are used by businesses / traders.

A very very small minority of private account holders choose to accept remorse returns, a greater percentage of businesses offer free remorse returns.

Following your line of thought perhaps based on equality the buyer protection fee against private account purchases should be increased - Do I believe this - no

You have the ability to refuse remorse returns using a private account at your will - if you choose to offer remorse returns you do so to benefit yourself. 

I believe that private account holders should be forced to accept remorse returns and not allowed to offer direct replacements (private personal sellers really do not have direct replacements to offer by the nature of one off unwanted items) 

These measures would further deter trading on private accounts.

As you advocate accepting remorse returns do you agree that forcing private accounts to accept remorse returns should be implemented ?

If not then you must accept that the two accounts are fundamentally different  and that the conditions ebay are imposing on private accounts are designed solely for sellers of personal unwanted items  with no cost and business accounts are designed for traders selling repeat lines  items purchased at a cost for resale. 

[lucy_farmer]

'I believe that private account holders should be forced to accept remorse returns'

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So do I.

That may work out better for those private sellers as well. A fair few buyers would end up damaging or breaking the item in order to get an INAD return if the seller *doesn't* do remorse returns.

At least with the remorse return, the seller has the opportunity to re sell the thingy because it's still in one piece.

'....and not allowed to offer direct replacements (private personal sellers really do not have direct replacements to offer by the nature of one off unwanted items) '

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Yeh, I'm with you there: it would be a bit of a give away if the 'private' seller could just pick up another identical thingy off the shelf when the first one didn't arrive/arrived broken.....

[1956glyn]

No seller on ebay with a grain of sense forbids returns

Then i do not have a grain of sense.........having no returns has a couple of times served me well over the years

First time was when i sold a decent sat nav to a new driver.......he nearly ended up in the river lol    I told him you should also follow the rules of the road !  He also got fined for driving in a bus lane doh  He blamed the sat nav and wanted me to pay his fine !!

[springfields60]

"If the seller has done a thorough job with their description, there should
be no excuse for a change of mind return"

We live in a world where "changed mind" is commonplace, we have the likes
of Amazon to thank for that. Those buyers who are savvy with ebay ways also
know that if they simply press the option for return as "not as described
or damaged" then I have no choice but to not only refund but to also pay
for return postage. Cynical it may be but everyone knows what I mean.

[kath3735_wxmjn]

i say no returns (obviously for change of mind), it has worked for me so far.   If someone got in touch and has a genuine complaint then i refund straight away, i have had very few returns over the years because i try to make sure that everything is as described and packed well.  Why should i do returns for change of mind?.   What makes me annoyed are the ones who say that an item is damaged etc in their feedback and yet do not even let me know or put in for an INAD.   They get blocked straight away, if i believe someone about a fault they do not get blocked and i do not bother getting the item returned, you can usually tell the genuine ones.  It works for me.

[dch2112011]

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@1956glyn wrote:

First time was when i sold a decent sat nav to a new driver.......he nearly ended up in the river lol    I told him you should also follow the rules of the road !  He also got fined for driving in a bus lane doh  He blamed the sat nav and wanted me to pay his fine !!

Yes but I bet it brings a smile to your face everytime you think about it !  

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[1956glyn]

I did wonder how he managed to pass his test and should he really even be on the roads 🤔

[1956glyn]

Thats basically what i do and fingers crossed complaints are rare.  If its a more expensive item then i do insist on return,

[dch2112011]

Reading what you and Kath do to handle returns seems very reasonable, which makes me think - are the majority of posters who frequent the forum decent honest sellers for whom the changes are unnecessary ?

Which begs the question as to are the majority of poor sellers not voicing an opinion because deep down they realise their approach to selling is dubious and ultimately opens the door for ebay to restrict members decisions ?

[g1dgl]

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@lucy_farmer wrote:

Yeh, I'm with you there: it would be a bit of a give away if the 'private' seller could just pick up another identical thingy off the shelf when the first one didn't arrive/arrived broken.....

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Forty years ago when I was a student I bought or was sometimes given boxes of electronic components.  Some I've used over the decades, many I haven't.  Now I am selling them off in ones or twos to make a bit of spare cash (typically about £300 per year).  I list them mostly as "New Other - New Old Stock".  I am confident that this makes me a private seller.

However, for many items the box contains perhaps a dozen or so identical units so in most cases if there is a problem (which has almost never happened) I can indeed pick another "thingy" off the shelf.  It is a pity that you think that this is a "give away".

I accept returns on almost all items but so far no-one has asked to do so.

[cassidy_r_private]

“Why should i do returns for change of mind?”

Private seller - it’s up to you

Business seller - because that’s the law

Another reason why correctly declared businesses get so fed up with private accounts used for running a business.

[dch2112011]

There will always be genuine exceptions to a rule, but with any large selling platform, it has to have a one glove fits all policy, so policies are designed with the majority in mind.

The majority of private account holders should not have multiple identical items for sale - most of those that do are traders avoiding responsibility and fees and this is who such a hyperthetical change would affect more than anyone else.

[cassidy_r_private]

"you can usually tell the genuine ones".

Ain't that the truth!

[g1dgl]

I'm not complaining about any "policy" or any "rule".  I am merely pointing out that people shouldn't jump to the conclusion that because a private seller has multiple identical items on sale that this is a "give away" that they are really a business seller.

I absolutely agree that there are business sellers posing as private sellers, but perhaps other sellers shouldn't jump to hard and fast conclusions about who these are and instead assess each seller on the details of their particular listings.

[satuf_30]

Totally agree, had an item on for £3.00 buyer offered me £1.23 so they were reducing by a £1 plus the buyer protection of £0.77.  Just feel total waste of time packing the item and going to post office.  Can’t put in a competitive price that is open to offers without this fee taking this out of my hands.  Knew no selling fees was too good to be true!

[cassidy_r_private]

"Totally agree, had an item on for £3.00 buyer offered me £1.23 so they were reducing by a £1 plus the buyer protection of £0.77."

Seriously, don't accept offers on £3.00 items. It's a complete waste of time and indicates you aren't confident in your pricing. 'Make an offer' is part of the culture on Vinted, but it doesn't have to be like that here.