EBay asking for national insurance number

[raik1performance]

Hi everyone, I recently joined for like 1 month and I start selling as a private seller , and now eBay is asking me to provide national insurance number.

"New UK digital sales reporting legislation requires sellers with 30 or more sales, or who have sales exceeding £1740 in a calendar year, to register this information"

[jonatjonatjonat]

Once upon a time you could smoke in pubs. Once upon a time you could take liquids on airplanes. Once upon a time you couldn’t sell as a business while pretending to be a private individual over the internet…

times change. Legislations change.

[theelench]

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@vinylscot wrote:

I think it's more likely that eBid, being much less sophisticated than eBay, will only be asking for NINOs in situations where the thresholds are likely to be breached.

Going by the slow trickle of sellers coming here to mention that they've been asked to give ebay their NINO, it would appear that is also how ebay is approaching the issue.

Although you insist eBay works for you, and I have no reason to doubt you, you must admit there will be relatively few sellers on eBid who will approach these thresholds.

Depends what you mean by "relatively".  If you mean comparing numbers with ebay, then yes.  But if you mean the proportion of their sellers that will have to be asked, I think you might be surprised.  Remember, a mainstay of their survival for years has been sales of stamps and postcards.  It certainly won't be difficult to reach 30 sales in either category.

I regularly check their "Recently Sold" carousel and in batches of 12 it chugs around 24/7, changing regularly.  At about 8 a.m this morning it was showing 1 cigarette card, 2 stamps, 3 postcards, 1 ephemera, 2OTC medical, 2 vinyl / DVD & 1 valve tester.   I've noticed that other regular sales include comics, magazines, model cars and trains, pet food & supplies and film clips.

That is almost certainly why people are reporting that eBid has not requested their NINO. I am quite sure they will be asked, should it become relevant. Not to put eBid down, but I imagine the process over there could be run manually by one member of staff, keeping an eye on running totals, as part of their overall duties. It won't be very onerous.

There will be quite a few who regularly appear on the Sales stripe at least a few of whom I know to also be regular posters on their boards.  But not one seller has come forward to say that they've had a request for their NINO.  Apart from one short thread back when the requirement was first announced, there has been literally no mention of the subject.

Why ebid seems to be ignoring the whole thing, I have no idea but I think you have to look for a better reason than that no-one has made 30 sales so far this year.  That idea is nearly as ridiculous as those who suggest that Nothing Ever Sells There.

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[specialk1937]

To address your comments;-
This my be Official legislation, but that does not stop me disagreeing with
it. As for HMRC, I got the impression from having had correspondence with
them, that they felt they were a piggy in the middle in all of this, and
they freely admitted that if you sell your own possessions you wont be
liable to tax anyway!
Then you say it doesn't matter what I think if I feel insecure about
surrendering my NI Number. Surely EVERYONE should be concerned in this day
and age about security and fraud!
Yes, non compliance will probably bar me from eBay, but I have already
stopped selling on eBay after 21 years. However, it wasn't entirely due to
this business with NI Numbers, The starting point for me was when they
imposed a Buyers Protection Fee on Private Sellers, which crippled my
sales, then they started messing about with postal arrangements!
I have to say, that after all the hassle, it has been a tremendous relief
to be rid of it all, and to get my life back again,. and by all accounts I
am not alone in leaving the site!

[specialk1937]

Yes, sometimes legislations change for the better, sometimes for the
worse. At one time we used to hang people, but now thank God we don't!

[vinylscot]

Again, you're conflating a couple of things to support your own preferred conclusion.

I have no doubt that some sellers will have sold 30 items on eBid - I didn't suggest otherwise; I merely stated that the workload generated by collecting those NINOs could probably be carried out by a single member of staff - the numbers will not be high.

I also have no doubt that these sellers have been, or will be, asked for their NINO in line with the legislation. eBid may be approaching it differently; perhaps they will be planning to ask for the NINO at the last possible moment, knowing that some sellers will refuse, but eBid will already have benefitted from their sales.

In addition, it's one of these "how do you prove a negative" things - just because nobody has told us it has happened, it does not necessarily follow that it hasn't happened.

[crn303]

Good posting theelench …. 
Why is it that some posters always believe they know best.
Once challenged they disappear quicker than they arrive.

Every one voicing their opinion on these community postings are entitled to do so.

Credit to eBay for allowing such action.

[specialk1937]

You have to have had experience of what goes on on 'ebid' before
commenting, otherwise it is just pure speculation!

[leadhills_scot]

I returned to ebid in January and so far have only had 2 sales. If it keeps up like that I can't see me ever having to give them my NI number. 

Over there, unless you are in the collectables categories very little seems to sell.

[ett1954]

Done that and found it is no way sustainable for a business.

It appears to be a company prepared to just tick along providing a useful income for the owner and executives without aspirations to promote and expand.  Between 21 and 32 employees depending on which source used with most executives and developers based in the Middle East, Africa and Asia.

Four million listings a day viewable on average but spread around approximately 25 countries on five continents. eBay running close to two billion listings.

ebid revenue around 33 million dollars.

To summarise not a viable platform for a business but may be useful for private sellers of niche collectables.

[vinylscot]

I used eBid solidly for two years about a decade ago, with little success (under this user name - I'm sure you can find me).

I also listed a few hundred items more recently, within the last couple of years, and had even less success. I still drop in from time to time to see if much has changed. Admittedly, there are more listings now, but it's still small and relatively insignificant.

I am speaking from experience, not pure speculation.

[theelench]

It's also one of those "Red Herring" things.  Detailed discussion of what is or is not going-on on ebid is irrelevant in a discussion about what is going-on on ebay.

Ebid hasn't made any site-wide announcement.  As I said there was a short thread following ebay's announcement of the new reporting requirements, since then nothing.

The discussion on ebay has mostly been about either ebay allowing sellers to sell items then holding the seller's funds until they hand over their NINO.  Or that some sellers don't trust ebay enough to comply with any demand for for it.

That is ebay's problem and again it's one that ebay has created for itself by it's underhand method of extracting what they want or a more general lack of trust in ebay.

Whatever ebid is doing, or not doing, hasn't caused a single comment on their boards of anger or dissent .

However they're planning to implement the new Reporting Requirements will I'm sure be announced with the site's usual clarity, whenever they decide start implementation.  Until then your speculations are as pointless as mine.

So perhaps we should concentrate on ebay's actions and the distrust they have caused ?  

[theelench]

Long may it continue like that.

Ebay likes business sellers, many of whom regard private sellers of collectables as cluttering up their site with "Tat".

So perhaps business sellers should stick to ebay  (and stop making out that nothing sells there) and encourage collectables sellers to go where they are welcome.

Without all the negative publicity that they give ebid it might even grow to a point where it is a safe environment for a few businesses.  Hopefully The Management over there won't be as greedy as ebay's and will restrict the growth of business numbers to a sustainable level.  That way the World Wide Boot / Collectors Fair can continue as it always will , given the opportunity, without being pushed into the background by 'race to the bottom' businesses making the site unsafe for everyone else.

You've taken over world-wide ebay,  Ebid's village fete is better off without you and your bad publicity.

[theelench]

So how do you think that "Recent Sales" carousel keeps chugging along 24/7/365 ?

Perhaps you need to adapt to a different environment and try something new.

As a non-professional private seller I spent 5 years doing things wrong and getting single digit sales each year.  Then I looked at how to make it work for me and got sales of double digits.  Then, with a little help from Covid Lock-downs and ebays increasingly useless search, I began outselling my ebay sales every year.  Last year with sales 28 /4 in ebid's favour I gave up on ebay.

[laneanddodgey]

EBay have no “legal entitlement” to NI numbers - period. They have an obligation, under a threat of a £1000 fine, to inform the HMRC of sellers information that fall into a particular category for sales, but that is the extent of it. Of course if you don’t supply eBay with your NI number then undoubtedly  they will suspend your account and withhold your money (the latter is a matter of of legal debate)

They already have names and bank account details, so to add a NI number would give them a “full-house”. 
Not an organisation to entrust with such critical information - some may say?

[papso22]

They have a legal obligation to provide the 'tax identification number' with the sales details.

[laneanddodgey]

I can only refer you to the previous statement.

[specialk1937]

We all know all about legal obligations but the point at issue here is
whether eBay can be trusted to have your National Insurance Number.
As I keep saying we have always been led to believe that only your employer
and the Tax Office should be privy to this information, because it is
personal to you. So in this age of identity theft and fraud should we at
least be concerned whether this poses a security risk. Anyone who has been
scammed will tell you, you can't be too careful with handing out anything
to anyone that will serve to identify you! We have got past the age of
snatching someones handbag, it has all got so much more hi-tech now!

[ruby*ryan]

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@laneanddodgey wrote:

EBay have no “legal entitlement” to NI numbers - period. They have an obligation, under a threat of a £1000 fine, to inform the HMRC of sellers information that fall into a particular category for sales, but that is the extent of it. Of course if you don’t supply eBay with your NI number then undoubtedly  they will suspend your account and withhold your money (the latter is a matter of of legal debate)

They already have names and bank account details, so to add a NI number would give them a “full-house”. 
Not an organisation to entrust with such critical information - some may say?

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This is from https://www.gov.uk/guidance/reporting-rules-for-digital-platforms#who-should-register

the page that informs businesses like eBay who need to report when & what they need to report. You will note it states they need to collect the NI number for individual sellers.

For individual sellers

You need to report their:

• full name
• home address
• date of birth
• National Insurance number if they live in the UK — if they live outside the UK, the tax identification number and the country where it was issued
• other tax identification numbers (like a VAT number) and where they were issued — if available

[jonatjonatjonat]

Your employer or HMRC themselves could be hacked no? So why is it eBay are any more of a concern given it is NOW a requirement? Not in the hazy past when only your employer and HMRC needed your NI number.

my place of work has all of the same info that eBay would. My place of work could be hacked.

[laneanddodgey]

A platform can only supply a NI number if it has been freely given. If a seller refuses to give their NI number to eBay there is nothing that can be legally enforced by the HMRC against any platform that fails, upon request, to collect that information. The HMRC will expect any platform effected by the current legislation, to ask a seller for NI details and to have a contingency if there is a failure to obtain, however, it does not change the 100% fact that a seller has no legal obligation to supply such information, that becomes a matter for the HMRC and the seller.