EBay asking for national insurance number

Hi everyone, I recently joined for like 1 month and I start selling as a private seller , and now eBay is asking me to provide national insurance number.

"New UK digital sales reporting legislation requires sellers with 30 or more sales, or who have sales exceeding £1740 in a calendar year, to register this information"

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Re: EBay asking for national insurance number

Hi, no one is going to sort the mess out. EBay are being told they need to tell HMRC of sales and even if, like me, you re a private seller selling own possessions they want your NINO even  tho there is no requirement as a private individual to declare these ‘sales’ ( it’s laughable to call them sales as they are more disposals, sales related to good in business) if personal items this is not  business eg not buying to sell and generate profit. So why do eBay and HMRC think I am going to provide my NINO to eBay! It’s beyond any logic I know. As for you eBay will give HMRC all your sales and that includes your postage costs. If you are running a business these are allowable expenses, that come off your profit, so not sales at all but expenses. Don’t bother worrying about what eBay do, they are not HNRC or accountants and they know little about UK tax or liability of such. Make sure you detail your sales and expenses. Your post is a legitimate expense and is set off against your sales and reduces your profit and the tax, if any, you pay. BTW post is exempt from VAT.

Message 601 of 625
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Re: EBay asking for national insurance number

Hi, how do you know that the worst you can expect is to make a declaration to HMRC saying you are not  a trader?  Both eBay and HMRC should know if a person is a business or private seller. This means looking at their sales, personal private sales will be obvious as oppose to business sales or bulk produced items of a similar sort. It seems to me that both eBay and HMRC are happy to lump us altogether and so the chaos ensues! Let them sort it out much to their time and efforts. They are causing themselves a lot of work to try and catch business disguised as private sellers, and yes, there will be some out there but common sense should have prevailed long before eBay started asking everyone for their NINO! What a lot of work they have caused for themselves, when what they should have done was put a procedure in place to catch fraudsters without involving private innocent sellers. Some of us private sellers (not a business) don’t want our NINO on eBay and are caught in limbo with our funds on hold, because HMRC and EBay couldn’t see a problem arising m, or didn’t care!

Message 602 of 625
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Some of us private sellers who now have their funds on hold aren’t interested in selling on eBay any longer. It’s a nightmare. We are being blackmailed to put our NINO s on there, when we have no requirement under law to declare these so called sales to HMRC and no tax liability for them either. Then you ask eBay to close your account and they won’t because you gave funds, which they are withholding , meaning your account is in limbo, thereby refusing you to terminate your contract with them. It’s despicable. EBay have reached an all time low.

Message 603 of 625
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Re: EBay asking for national insurance number

Well it’s your NINO and it’s up to you where you decide to provide it to eBay. If you are a business seller then you might as well buy if you are a private seller, selling your own personal possessions then I would not provide mine to eBay if I knew I had no tax liability to declare.

Message 604 of 625
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Re: EBay asking for national insurance number

Hi, I d be more cautious if I were you. M&S, the coop, banks etc can’t stop the hacking so what do you think will happen if someone steals your identity and uses your National Insurance number? I wouldn’t want HMRC banging on my door saying I owe them £50,000 income tax for sales I never made because someone else made them with my ID, eg my National Insurance number. EBay have your name, address, email and phone and if they have your NINO too and someone get hold of it any amount of fraud could be committed in your name and you try proving that it wasn’t you!! Be very careful before you put valuable private information out there. Protect yourself.

Message 605 of 625
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I haven’t handed mine over and I removed all my private sales. I have no tax liability for eBay sales and I do not need to provide my NINO to eBay. It s really that simple. HMRC and eBay should have handled this better and come up with a policy that works, instead they re creating a mess for themselves that they neither have the time or staff to sort out. All they have done is alienate innocent law abiding tax payers with BS and lost eBay a lot of sales.

Message 606 of 625
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Re: EBay asking for national insurance number

First; this procedure is part of an OECD initiative and agreement that is an effort to identify digital movement of currency which has been obtained by criminal means, especially across national boundaries.  Tax evasion is only one of these; add to it people trafficking, drugs, child exploitation, and a host of other fraudulent and criminal activities.  It is nothing to do with a specific purge by HMRC, eBay or the government, other than the UK is a member and a signatory, along with the other 35+ members of the OECD, to this initiative.

 

Nevertheless; just take your statement "Both eBay and HMRC should know if a person is a business or private seller. This means looking at their sales, personal private sales will be obvious as oppose to business sales or bulk produced items of a similar sort." - and just how do you propose they do this, check every sellers account to see what they are selling, what type of product, what quantities?  There are millions of account holders on eBay.  It would be an impossible job to physically do this.  And eBay is only one selling platform - many people sell across numerous sites.

 

This method allows HMRC to link income from any digital platform to an individual NINO.  The Connect computer system at HMRC can then flag any anomalies for further investigation.  This is not being done to just target people not declaring an income but also to verify that businesses are declaring their correct income on their tax returns.  What used to take an HMRC inspector weeks to carry out can now be done in seconds.

 

I would add that your response in post 601 "If you are running a business these are allowable expenses, that come off your profit, so not sales at all but expenses."  This response was to a private seller - a private seller cannot claim expenses if subsequently found to have been guilty of not declaring an income.  Neither are expenses allowed to be offset if someone is using HMRC's Trading Allowance; this is determined on the total income received - not profit.

 

Do eBay care whether a seller is correctly registered as a business?  Of course not, unless the seller is at the level for VAT registration and not registered with their VAT number; an area where eBay are financially liable for such misdemeanours.  eBay will never monitor their site effectively unless it is in an area where they are held financially accountable.  Not providing a NINO of a seller who meets the selling criteria is one of those areas where eBay can be liable to a financial penalty if they cannot demonstrate that they have carried out due diligence to obtain it.  The withholding of funds is one of the measures they can use to coerce members into providing it whilst demonstrating to HMRC they have met their due diligence requirements to provide it..

 

Although I am sure that well over 90% of members use eBay legally and within eBay's policies and terms and conditions; a sizeable number ignore UK laws and eBay policies either knowingly with impunity, or through ignorance; especially selling part filled bottles of perfume, particularly as 'new'.

Message 607 of 625
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I don’t care. I m off this site asap. I have no idea whether that person was a private seller or a business. I know how tax works and if I have no obligation to declare my eBay sales to HMRC then I have no obligation to give eBay my NINO either. It’s all nonsense. Once again innocent sellers are being held to account for business sellers who hide their sales from HMRC and neither HMRC or eBay seem to be interested in coming up with a system that can integrate the data and identify the culprits so everyone has to suffer! It’s boring.
Kind Regards,
Sue
Message 608 of 625
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Re: EBay asking for national insurance number

Totally agree - In this age of fraud and identity theft the last thing is to share your N.I. number!
Message 609 of 625
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Interestingly I have several times reported obvious business sellers pretending to be private sellers , they just didn’t care. Do a search for high end cars and see the number is traders masquerading as private sellers. Mostly to evade their responsibility under the law for selling cars to the public, warranty and consumer rights act issues

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Re: EBay asking for national insurance number


@susaturne47 wrote:

Your post is a legitimate expense and is set off against your sales and reduces your profit and the tax, if any, you pay. BTW post is exempt from VAT.


Only Royal Mail Standard Tariff and Special Delivery Guaranteed by 1.00pm services are exempt from VAT.  

Message 611 of 625
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Re: EBay asking for national insurance number

Well that’s where their efforts need to be placed and not with the likes of me.
Kind Regards,
Sue
Message 612 of 625
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Re: EBay asking for national insurance number

All postage charges in the UK is exempt from Value Added Tax, check with HMRC if you are doubting me.
Kind Regards,
Sue
Message 613 of 625
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Re: EBay asking for national insurance number

Many people don’t seem to understand the seriousness of identity fraud and how it could turn your life upside down and even put you in jail for something you hadn’t done. Too much of your personal information in one place is a big mistake. The worse thing is government organisations and large companies seem to be blasé with our information and have their heads in the sand or more likely ‘up their own a•••’ and they think we’re daft enough to go along with them! The truth is we have the choice and need to exercise this.
Kind Regards,
Sue
Message 614 of 625
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Re: EBay asking for national insurance number

 

Is this what you were referring to?

 

https://www.royalmail.com/information-vat-and-postal-services

 

Under the heading “Royal Mail products that are liable to VAT”?

 

?

 

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Re: EBay asking for national insurance number


@susaturne47 wrote:
All postage charges in the UK is exempt from Value Added Tax, check with HMRC if you are doubting me.
Kind Regards,
Sue

That's not correct.

 

You can check with Royal Mail's website, who have clearly set out what services are and aren't VATable in the link that @*devils.advocate* has kindly posted.

 

Use the dropdown menu there to see where services have VAT charged on them, and which are exempt. 

Message 616 of 625
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Re: EBay asking for national insurance number

VAT on postage is not so simple as it used to be, there wasn’t any and it was exempt. However rules changed and VAT is now charged on many postage costs, not stamps for letters, but it has been added to others. In effect if you are a business you can claim that VAT back as an expense, indeed your postage costs will also be a cost to the business (cost of goods sold) and a direct expense in pursuit of your business and so affect your profit as purchases are netted off sales to arrive at your profit. Clearly non of this applies to private sellers, like me, we re not a business and not VAT registered, so postage to is is just a necessary hindrance and a partial cost to a seller as eBay charge us a percentage of this as fees on the value of sales and an postage is ultimately an expense to the buyer.
Kind Regards,
Sue
Message 617 of 625
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Re: EBay asking for national insurance number

As per gov.uk

 

“Postal services provided by the Royal Mail Group Limited under its remit as the universal postal service provider in the UK are exempt from VAT if they’re subject to price and regulatory control. This exemption does not extend to similar services provided by the Royal Mail or other suppliers.”


So people would be right to doubt you.

 

Message 618 of 625
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Re: EBay asking for national insurance number

Yes I did and can see they have added VAT, to many postal service now, another thing that crept in under the radar without the public being aware!
Kind Regards,
Sue
Message 619 of 625
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Re: EBay asking for national insurance number

Yes you are right. They changed the liability for postal services and now include VAT on many.
Kind Regards,
Sue
Message 620 of 625
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